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Corkey private msg quote post Address this user
i'm over PHAT, ive tried it out for 4 weeks now and havent seen any real difference so im going back to normal Hypertrophy and starting this split:

Monday - Chest, bi's, abs
Tuesday - Legs
Wednesday - Shoulders, Traps, Tri's, Abs
Thursday - off
Friday - Back, Traps, Abs
Saturday - Arms
Sunday - off

What do you guys think?
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IrishGymSheep private msg quote post Address this user
Whole days for arms are a waste.
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WaxyLizard private msg quote post Address this user
Why are they a waste?
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IrishGymSheep private msg quote post Address this user
Your spending an entire day working on two of the smallest muscles in your body, they literally take up like 1/20th of your entire body.

It would be worse than walking into the gym and just doing calves and traps.

I use to do it a bit but if I did I made it an arm focused chest/back routine, lots of chinups, dips etc.
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Corkey private msg quote post Address this user
@Irish what do you think i could add into my arms day to make it count?
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dwatson private msg quote post Address this user
An entire arm day is not a waste Irish. They are the smallest muscle groups, yes.

My arms lag therefore i work them on thier own day besides getting some work in on compound movements.

PHAT is not a program designed for 4 weeks. This is a 8-10 week program and still you shouldn't be platueaing. I started PHAT 8 weeks ago and i've never been stronger in my life.
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IrishGymSheep private msg quote post Address this user
Stuff like dip, chin up supersets, weighted chins and dips, close grip pushups etc. Movements that have heavy arm involvement but also work other areas like chest and back.

Strictly speaking it is a waste, your body could handle arms + something else but your strictly doing arms.

Bodybuilding is about optimizing that's why you don't do Biceps on its own day or jsut have a single day for traps or forearms etc.
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Corkey private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by dwatson
An entire arm day is not a waste Irish. They are the smallest muscle groups, yes.

My arms lag therefore i work them on thier own day besides getting some work in on compound movements.

PHAT is not a program designed for 4 weeks. This is a 8-10 week program and still you shouldn't be platueaing. I started PHAT 8 weeks ago and i've never been stronger in my life.


i get what youre saying dude but im not enjoying it like at all... i know im not meant to have "fun" at gym but i usually enjoy a program because i feel it working hardcore which im not feeling with PHAT hey...


Quote:
Originally Posted by IrishGymSheep
Stuff like dip, chin up supersets, weighted chins and dips, close grip pushups etc. Movements that have heavy arm involvement but also work other areas like chest and back.

Strictly speaking it is a waste, your body could handle arms + something else but your strictly doing arms.

Bodybuilding is about optimizing that's why you don't do Biceps on its own day or jsut have a single day for traps or forearms etc.


so adding in dips and weighted dips for triceps with say a whole lotta supersets at the end... do you rate that would work out good?
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IrishGymSheep private msg quote post Address this user
Like if I was super worried about my arms lagging I would do.

Shoulders/Arms
Legs
Chest/Back
Rest
Shoulders/Arms
Legs
Chest/Back

You'd be hitting your arms pretty hard 4 times a week but you would also be getting in another big muscle group with them.

For arm's yeah that's great personally I'v never met anyone who can't add quick mass to their arms by starting Serge Nubret style supersets (16 supersets done ina row no break) whatever it seems to do to the cells you see pretty instant results.

Just really against a whole day for nothing but bicep and tricep.
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dwatson private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corkey
Quote:
Originally Posted by dwatson
An entire arm day is not a waste Irish. They are the smallest muscle groups, yes.

My arms lag therefore i work them on thier own day besides getting some work in on compound movements.

PHAT is not a program designed for 4 weeks. This is a 8-10 week program and still you shouldn't be platueaing. I started PHAT 8 weeks ago and i've never been stronger in my life.


i get what youre saying dude but im not enjoying it like at all... i know im not meant to have "fun" at gym but i usually enjoy a program because i feel it working hardcore which im not feeling with PHAT hey...


Quote:
Originally Posted by IrishGymSheep
Stuff like dip, chin up supersets, weighted chins and dips, close grip pushups etc. Movements that have heavy arm involvement but also work other areas like chest and back.

Strictly speaking it is a waste, your body could handle arms + something else but your strictly doing arms.

Bodybuilding is about optimizing that's why you don't do Biceps on its own day or jsut have a single day for traps or forearms etc.


so adding in dips and weighted dips for triceps with say a whole lotta supersets at the end... do you rate that would work out good?



Then what do you mean by its not working? Im curious to know what/how this isn't working for you.
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dwatson private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by IrishGymSheep
Like if I was super worried about my arms lagging I would do.

Shoulders/Arms
Legs
Chest/Back
Rest
Shoulders/Arms
Legs
Chest/Back

You'd be hitting your arms pretty hard 4 times a week but you would also be getting in another big muscle group with them.

For arm's yeah that's great personally I'v never met anyone who can't add quick mass to their arms by starting Serge Nubret style supersets (16 supersets done ina row no break) whatever it seems to do to the cells you see pretty instant results.

Just really against a whole day for nothing but bicep and tricep.


I read another great article talking about FST-7 last night.

Im going to run this for 6-8 weeks and re measure, then give what you said a shot.

For the 16 supersets, are they the same Bi/Tri Exercise, or is is 4 different exercises of 3 sets for each
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IrishGymSheep private msg quote post Address this user
Same exercise, you want no real rest so if you were switching exercise it would take more time.
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Corkey private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by dwatson
Then what do you mean by its not working? Im curious to know what/how this isn't working for you.


what i mean is im not seeing any major improvements... my DB chest press has gone up 1kg on hyper days sorta thing...
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dwatson private msg quote post Address this user
1kg = 2lbs, didn't know it could go up by 2lbs lol


What is your diet like?

(Honestly im really curious bc i haven't had 1 person i know tell me PHAT didn't do anything for them.)
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Corkey private msg quote post Address this user
i cant control my diet 100% as im still with my parents and just turned 16 so im not really independant yet...

my sample diet is usually:

meal 1: 6 Weetbix with small amount of sugar on with a cup of yogurt

Meal 2: 300g's yogurt with fruit(banana/mango)

meal 3(PreWO): Fried eggs on toast

meal 4(PostWO): Whey protein concentrate shake

meal 5: whatever my mom cooks lol

meal 6: a cup of cottage cheese/whey protein shake
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Corkey private msg quote post Address this user
i cant control my diet 100% as im still with my parents and just turned 16 so im not really independant yet...

my sample diet is usually:

meal 1: 6 Weetbix with small amount of sugar on with a cup of yogurt

Meal 2: 300g's yogurt with fruit(banana/mango)

meal 3(PreWO): Fried eggs on toast

meal 4(PostWO): Whey protein concentrate shake

meal 5: whatever my mom cooks lol

meal 6: a cup of cottage cheese/whey protein shake
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dwatson private msg quote post Address this user
You need to write down your macros and then i'll be able to help better.

I can tell you already your not getting enough food to gain muscle, especially for your age. Your metabolism is going to be faster then ever bud.

Take the time to write down your protein/carbs/fats/calories for the day and let me know.

Its not the workout thats going to get you big, its the diet man.
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Corkey private msg quote post Address this user
macros?

i'll get down with that and let you know...

thanks a lot man
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dwatson private msg quote post Address this user
Macro nutrition is looking at you caloric intake from the perspective of protein, carbohydrates and fats. Different goals require different macro numbers, as well as different people have different macros to fulfill their fitness needs.

This is opposed to micro nutrition that keeps track of vitamins, minerals, amino acids, etc.


But once you have them figured out, post back
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Corkey private msg quote post Address this user
and how would you calculate all that?

just from looking at the nutritional information on the back of the pack?
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haole private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corkey
and how would you calculate all that?

just from looking at the nutritional information on the back of the pack?


yes, or use a calorie counter like myfitnesspal...it makes it so much easier to track everything.
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dwatson private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by haole
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corkey
and how would you calculate all that?

just from looking at the nutritional information on the back of the pack?


yes, or use a calorie counter like myfitnesspal...it makes it so much easier to track everything.


Calorie counter is close, but i look on the back of them all.
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Zwalk private msg quote post Address this user
Your arms will get hit better with compound movements found in other major muscle group exercises combined with separate isolation exercises as Irish said. Or thats my experience.
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dwatson private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zwalk
Your arms will get hit better with compound movements found in other major muscle group exercises combined with separate isolation exercises as Irish said. Or thats my experience.


Thats not my experience lol Hence i've added a new arm day.
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Zwalk private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by dwatson
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zwalk
Your arms will get hit better with compound movements found in other major muscle group exercises combined with separate isolation exercises as Irish said. Or thats my experience.


Thats not my experience lol Hence i've added a new arm day.


DIfferent shit works for different people I suppose. I think superset always do my biceps the best.

Is anyone else quitting PHAT? I'm still doing it, I cant say I'm seeing too many gains yet...but I'm trying to keep at it and I like having 6 workouts a week haha
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dwatson private msg quote post Address this user
I'll post my progress from week 1 until now (Day 1):

Week 1:
Barbell Row (3-5) : 185, 190, 185
Weighted Pull Ups (6-10) : BW, BW, BW
Rack Chins (6-10) : BW+10 (2 sets)
Dumbbell Press (3-5) : 95 (3 sets)
Weighted Dips (6-10) : BW + 45 (3 sets)
DB shoulder Press (6-10) : 50x5 (3 sets)
Cambered Bar Curls (6-10) : 85,90,90
Skull Crushers (6-10) : EZ bar + 30


Current:

Barbell Row (3-5) : 205, 215, 225
Weighted Pull Ups (6-10) : BW+25 (3 sets)
Rack Chins (6-10) : BW+45 (3 sets)
Dumbbell Press (3-5) : 110's, 110's, 115
Weighted Dips (6-10) : BW + 90 (3 sets)
DB shoulder Press (6-10) : 65, 65, 70
Spider Curls (6-10) : 30's (3 sets)
DB Preacher Curl (6-8) : 35's (3 sets)
Skull Crushers (6-10) : EZ + 45's

*Note: Arms, are 3 secs down and squeeze at the top.

This is just for Day 1. Everything else is going just as good.
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PittMuscle private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by dwatson
I'll post my progress from week 1 until now (Day 1):

Week 1:
Barbell Row (3-5) : 185, 190, 185
Weighted Pull Ups (6-10) : BW, BW, BW
Rack Chins (6-10) : BW+10 (2 sets)
Dumbbell Press (3-5) : 95 (3 sets)
Weighted Dips (6-10) : BW + 45 (3 sets)
DB shoulder Press (6-10) : 50x5 (3 sets)
Cambered Bar Curls (6-10) : 85,90,90
Skull Crushers (6-10) : EZ bar + 30


Current:

Barbell Row (3-5) : 205, 215, 225
Weighted Pull Ups (6-10) : BW+25 (3 sets)
Rack Chins (6-10) : BW+45 (3 sets)
Dumbbell Press (3-5) : 110's, 110's, 115
Weighted Dips (6-10) : BW + 90 (3 sets)
DB shoulder Press (6-10) : 65, 65, 70
Spider Curls (6-10) : 30's (3 sets)
DB Preacher Curl (6-8) : 35's (3 sets)
Skull Crushers (6-10) : EZ + 45's

*Note: Arms, are 3 secs down and squeeze at the top.

This is just for Day 1. Everything else is going just as good.


Good shit dude! I'm so ready to start PHAT myself.

And Corkey, like they've already mentioned you're definitely not eating enough. If you follow this routine correctly there's and eat right there's no way that SOME aspect of it isn't working for you. You'd be surprised how much your nutrition is lacking when you finally count everything up for the first time. I know mine was when I started.
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dolby995 private msg quote post Address this user
hey dwatson, literally just started PHAT last week. looking to make similar gains to yourself. How long you gonna carry on with it for?
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dwatson private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by dolby995
hey dwatson, literally just started PHAT last week. looking to make similar gains to yourself. How long you gonna carry on with it for?


A better answer would be idk when im going to get off it. The nice thing about PHAT, is its virtually impossible to plateau. There is so many different ways to incorporate the idea behind it. Layne hit it dead on with this one.

Im on week 9 i believe, with 1 week as a rest week.

With a fine tuned diet, hitting your macros, you should be happy with the results you will see.

Let me know if you have any questions.
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dolby995 private msg quote post Address this user
yea ive really sorted my diet out over the last month, and with startin this im feeling good right now ha. Was really feeling it on my body all over by day 5 last week, can only be a good thing...
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