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5/3/1 Template Advice13483

Frostshock private msg quote post Address this user
Alright so in a couple months I'll be cutting. I LOVE PHAT but feel that I will get burnt out doing that program on a caloric deficit. If I can't gain mass I know I will get discouraged during my hypertrophy portion of the week.

Therefore I have decided to try my hand at 5/3/1!
REASONS!!!:

-Though you can't gain muscle at a deficit, you can gain strength! I want to use this to my advantage.

-I won't be cutting for too long so 4 week cycle of the program is perfect. Once I feel that I don't need to cut anymore, I just finish out my cycle while I reverse-diet and start PHAT again.

-Who DOESN'T want to increase their big 4?!

I downloaded a DIY spreadsheet from here. Does all the 1rm calculations for ya, it's great.

Main questions:
-Am I forgetting anything when it comes to accessory lifts? Something I should add/change? I tried to make them compliment the big lift for that day and the 4 "Ab" workouts are intended to switch off between the Rectus/Oblique parts of the abs.

-The article on 5/3/1 doesn't suggest any certain rest times. Is it as long as needed for the big lifts and 60-90 secs for the accessory orrrr...???

Routine:
(The sets and reps follow 5/3/1 set for set and rep for rep, accessory lifts are 5x10-12 and abs are 5x12 for a total of 18 sets/day)

Monday:
Squats - Leg Press - Lying Leg Curl - Cable Crunches

Tuesday:
Bench - Flye Movement (depending on equipment) - Pendlays - Russian twists

Thursday:
Deadlift - Assisted Pullups (unassisted when possible) - DB Rows - Hanging Leg Raises

Friday:
OHP - Goodmornings - Dips - DB Side Bends
(Not sure how I feel about the good mornings here. I want them in the program but can't figure out where I'd rather have them)

Wed-Sat-Sun
Off day or Cardio

I'm not going to mess with my diet right now, I'm sure my calories are going to go up by the time I start my cut.

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_RudeCrew private msg quote post Address this user
Use one of these templates

Click this shit
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THE GODFATHER wannabemuscular private msg quote post Address this user
Here's another. Everything is calculated based on your input on the "Questions" worksheet.
http://www.mediafire.com/download/ay49roba59umpf8/Wendler+5-3-1+v1.3.xlsx

I'm not clear on something you stated above:

"-I won't be cutting for too long so 4 week cycle of the program is perfect. "

Are you saying you're only going to run 5/3/1 for 4 weeks/1 cycle? No point in that at all.
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Perfidy private msg quote post Address this user
5/3/1 isn't meant as a short term program. It's meant to be run cycle after cycle, as are most programs. I wouldn't plan on just dropping it after your cut.

Wendler hangs out on t-nation.com a lot, and there are many 5/3/1 set ups posted there on the forums and as articles. A ton of valuable info that you can check out.. Or just buy the book(s).
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Frostshock private msg quote post Address this user
@_RudeCrew Tried to, damn thing broke my browser hahaha

@wannabemuscular NICE! this one is even fancier than the one I have!Quote:
Originally Posted by wannabemuscular
\"-I won\'t be cutting for too long so 4 week cycle of the program is perfect. \"

Are you saying you\'re only going to run 5/3/1 for 4 weeks/1 cycle? No point in that at all.

My bad, no I'll be running it for possibly 5-7 cycles depending on how long it takes to reverse diet to a deficit, reverse diet from that deficit, and slowly go back into a suitable surplus. The reverse dieting alone will probably be 2 cycles, not to mention the actual amount of time I would cut.

@xPerfidy Would you say 5-7 cycles isn't long enough to justify changing to 5/3/1? I'll make sure to check that out for more ideas, I just tried not to stray far from the original program.
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THE GODFATHER wannabemuscular private msg quote post Address this user
I think 5-7 months is OK. You may end up liking it and staying with it longer anyway. You can tailor the accessories and diet to achieve either a strength or bulking goal, or both. It's really a very versatile program after the big 4 primary moves.
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mikew private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frostshock
Though you can't gain muscle at a deficit, you can gain strength! I want to use this to my advantage.


I think it's more accurate to say that you can improve your technique which can help you make gains. I continue to be amazed by incorporating bands into my dynamic effort work. Gotta add bands into your routine.

That being said, I'm not a huge proponent of 5/3/1 on a cut because it is so demanding. For me it was important to scale back expectations a tiny bit and emphasize improved technique. Basically focused on maintaining my 1RMs.

Also, I think you need to do more dynamic effort stuff overall. For example, on leg day - I'd nix leg press in favor of DE deadlifts.
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Perfidy private msg quote post Address this user
@Frostshock 5-7 is a good start. Wendler created the program, so any templates he creates you should just assume are solid. He has posted a bunch on t-nation, and there's countless more in his books. 5/3/1 has so much room for variants, so I would for sure do your research and decide what template is best FOR YOU.
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Frostshock private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by wannabemuscular
It\'s really a very versatile program after the big 4 primary moves.
Yeah thats the main reason I want to try it out. I look forward to the big 4 all week so I though a program based on them would be fun!

@mikew I've actually been very interested in DE/ME training, I have 1 set of bands that I bring every once and a while with me for my speed sets for PHAT and I use them to work out the kink in my shoulder. My gym doesn't have chains and only has 1 broken set of bands so I haven't really looked more closely into it. Are there alternatives to using bands for DE work?
Would speed sets in PHAT even count as a DE type exercise?

@xPerfidy Browsing T-Nation now, there are indeed a fuck ton of templates haha

Thanks for the advice all, reps all around
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Perfidy private msg quote post Address this user
Wendler himself actually posts on parts of the forums (he has his own part of the forums. You can always ask him questions, but he tends to be a dick most of the time so just be warned! Good luck man, curious to see your progression.
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FiremanSi private msg quote post Address this user
Don't know where to start really:
Well, i do pull ups between squats and bench.
chin ups between OHP and deads

This was prescribed in one of his books.

I dont know if u've read them but u should.

Wouldn't put flyes in personally.

Do ur good mornings instead of leg curls.

Don't need abs everyday. Do them on lower body days.

The utilise movements that will contribute to ur main lifts.

Squats-> leg press lunges
deads-> rack pulls, SLDL's
Bench- DB floor press, inclin db bench
ohp- dips, incline press

I do rear delt work on upper days also.
He also prescribes WALKING every day, if u do alot in ur everyday life then fine.. i don't so i do it before my workout.. Also Limber 11 everyday is stated.
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Torance private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by _RudeCrew
Use one of these templates

Click this shit


bro i love you!, this site is amazing; I been looking for a new routine.


I been doing 5/3/1 for the past 6months and it has worked great for me.

I was using something similar to this:

http://www.jimwendler.com/2012/09/531-and-bodybuilding/
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Frostshock private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by FiremanSi
This was prescribed in one of his books.

I dont know if u\'ve read them but u should.


Shit, looks like I really should buy that book. I thought it was simple enough haha. Here's where I got my basic template:
http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance/how_to_build_pure_strength

@FiremanSi I thought you were doing 5/3/1 but I checked the log and saw the ME/DE stuff with a ton of accessory lifts so I figured it was a whole other beast entirely.

I also am programming in the PHAT mindset of trying to keep everything even. 2:1 ratio for back:chest, all that good stuff.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FiremanSi
Squats-> leg press lunges
deads-> rack pulls, SLDL's
Bench- DB floor press, inclin db bench
ohp- dips, incline press

I'm afraid of not rowing for 7 months :/

Quote:
Originally Posted by FiremanSi
Don\'t need abs everyday. Do them on lower body days.

Good, definitely wasn't looking forward to that.
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Perfidy private msg quote post Address this user
Day 1
Military Press (5/3/1)
􏰀 Shoulders or Chest – 5 sets of 10-20 reps (DB bench, DB Incline, DB Military, Incline press, Dips, Pushups)
􏰀 Lats or Upper Back – 5 sets of 10-20 reps (DB rows, Bent Over Rows, Chins, T-bar Rows, Lat Pulldowns, Face Pulls, Shrugs)
􏰀 Triceps – 5 sets of 10-20 reps (Triceps Pushdowns or Triceps Extensions)

Day 2
Deadlift (5/3/1)
􏰀 Hamstrings – 5 sets of 10-20 reps (Leg Curls, Glute-Ham Raise)
􏰀 Quads – 5 sets of 10-20 reps (Leg Press, Lunges, Hack Squats)
􏰀 Abs – 5 sets of 10-20 reps (Sit-ups, Hanging Leg Raises, Ab Wheel, DB Side Bend)

Day 3
Bench Press (5/3/1)
􏰀 Shoulders or Chest – 5 sets of 10-20 reps (DB bench, DB Incline, DB Military, Incline press, Dips, Pushups)
􏰀 Lats or Upper Back – 5 sets of 10-20 reps (DB rows, Bent Over Rows, Chins, T-bar Rows, Lat Pulldowns, Face Pulls, Shrugs)
􏰀 Triceps – 5 sets of 10-20 reps (Triceps Pushdowns or Triceps Extensions)

Day 4
Squat (5/3/1)
􏰀 Low Back – 5 sets of 10-20 reps (Reverse Hyper, Back Raise, Good Morning)
􏰀 Quads – 5 sets of 10-20 reps (Leg Press, Lunges, Hack Squats)
􏰀 Abs – 5 sets of 10-20 reps (Sit-ups, Hanging Leg Raises, Ab Wheel, DB Side Bend)
---------
Here's a template he laid out that makes it pretty simple. Do your main lift, and pick an accessory movement from each category, and finish your day. Variety is up to you, and he always says that accessory work should be used to bring up weaknesses.
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Frostshock private msg quote post Address this user
@xPerfidy I'm a fan, reps for you sir! Just switching up the days for the sake of convenience but here's what I'd like to do revised.

Monday:
Squats - Good Mornings - Leg press - Hanging Leg Raises

Tuesday:
Flat BB Bench - Flat DB Bench - DB Rows - Tricep extensions

Thursday:
Deadlifts - Leg curls - Hack Squats - DB Side Bend

Friday:
OHP - BB Incline press - Chinups - Rope Pushdowns

Main lifts following 5/3/1, 5 sets of 10-20 for assistance lifts.

Still definitely interested in ME/DE aspects of training, might use one of the 3 "off days" to play with that. Definitely need to read up on it after work though.
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FiremanSi private msg quote post Address this user
@Frostshock Send me your email and i'll forward you the books, fock that buying Lark.

I am doing 531 it's just an adaptation with some WSBB stuff included that myself and @Winnersneverquit came up with.. just added in speed work and bit more accesory work. Accesory work chosen to bring up weak points.
I do pull ups or chins every day between speed work sets, works out about 5sets @BW.
Then on upper days i do band pull aparts for 4sets of 25 between warm up sets.
Only 4days a week though.. I have a chin bar down the station i do 5sets of chins on off days.. and LISS before each workout and sometimes Bikram yoga once every second week.
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Frostshock private msg quote post Address this user
@FiremanSi Alright awesome man thanks!
Yeah I wanted to do chins because of the lack of direct bicep work and my chins/pullups are painfully weak. They shame me every upper power day lol

Band stuff actually sounds pretty good for in between warm up sets
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