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Starting to beleive you guys about chest...11877

FxElement17 private msg quote post Address this user
Would you agree that given what you are saying is true, my upper chest feels more sore because when I'm trying to target it I have a better mind muscle connection to my chest then when I'm just trying to bang out heavy reps on the flat?
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The Dark
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eknight private msg quote post Address this user
@nutellafreak flat.

@FxElement17 I would disagree. For the same phyiological reasons I stated above. You can't make one head of your biceps grow more than the other with "mind muscle connection." -3X
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FxElement17 private msg quote post Address this user
Can't you technically have one head of a tricep fire more than the other two given the way you do the exercise?


What I'm getting at is if everything is so cut and dry that no exercise is really better than another in terms of muscle building, because they all either work the muscle or they dont, why would anyone ever do anything other than flies and tricep pushdown for chest and tris? I feel the hardest contraction of my chest during flies, and tricep pushdowns hit my tris to the point where I can almost feel them cramping.

Am I wasting my time doing anything other than these two exercises, when it comes to bodybuilding (not powerlifting)?
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FxElement17 private msg quote post Address this user
Let's even ignore triceps for now. Just chest. Personally, doing a machine fly, correctly, engages the largest chest contraction I can get. Should I only be doing flies?
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The Dark
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eknight private msg quote post Address this user
When you "feel" an exercise working, that's not an indication of actual work being performed by it, not is it indicative of the amount or placement of the fibers. It's a neurological feedback, nothing more. Doing flyes isn't going to be as effective as presses in terms of growth because you can't handle as heavy a weight, but in terms of number of fibers and where they are, it's the exact same thing as pressing, which the EMG analysis also shows. -3X
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FxElement17 private msg quote post Address this user
About the feel: ok, I can understand pain is neurological feedback, I can accept this as being independent of muscle breakdown.

About the weight of flies: Technically, because I'm almost only using my chest during this exercise, it is possible my chest, alone, is moving more weight even when the total weight of the exercise is less. Can't this be correct? I know for a fact I'm getting a much harder contraction during machine flies than barbell presses, because after a serious fly set my chest gets an almost cramped feeling.
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FxElement17 private msg quote post Address this user
In a way, another point I'm getting to (not premeditated), is that its possible that compounds are great for pre-exhausting all muscles you will be working for the day, but to actually get a complete workout, you must then supplement with the isolation exercise that gets the best contraction for you, personally.
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The Dark
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eknight private msg quote post Address this user
@FxElement17 this is not meant to be a knock on your training, but if that's the case, you're not benching correctly for hypertrophy. -3X
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FxElement17 private msg quote post Address this user
No offense taken, I primarily bench like a power lifter, which could actually be the root of the cause of this entire discussion. However, that isn't to say that I never bench like a bodybuilder, and comparing that feeling to one after a set of flies where I mindfully only use my chest to bring the weight together, is like night and day
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FxElement17 private msg quote post Address this user
What are your thoughts on powerbuilding?

Example, bench heavy flat to start a workout, then switch to high rep/high volume for your other lifts for that same bodypart, all in the same workout? Do you believe this can achieve strength and size at the same time?
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illwill private msg quote post Address this user
@eknight

I know this is not really the topic on hand, but are abdominal's the same in that you don't need 20 different exercises?

I never really subscribed to having to hit every particular angle to develop your abs, but am I wrong and is it necessary?
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The Dark
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eknight private msg quote post Address this user
@FxElement17 yes on both topics, with a bit of a caveat on the abs. Your medsection is more than just your abs- there's your TVA, and your inner and outer obliques, which require different movements. But in terms of upper or lower abs, same principle. I'm alwasy amazed at people who belive leg raises will work your abs, when they don't attach to your femurs. -3X
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Cannonball private msg quote post Address this user





No pump, no flex, nothing but heavy bench and military press
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illwill private msg quote post Address this user
@eknight

Ok thanks. I do hit the obliques, but I was fairly certain about the upper/lower ab mix.

right now I'm only doing cable crunches and windshield wipers with some weighted declines at the end if I'm not too lazy.
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jonrivs49 private msg quote post Address this user
Upper chest mid and lower battle again.. Guys just post chest anatomy showing pec minor and pec major.
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The Dark
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eknight private msg quote post Address this user
^^not really the same thing. -3X
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Prometheus private msg quote post Address this user
I love me some incline bench
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SwoleAnimal private msg quote post Address this user
I hate bench press in general, but do it anyway.
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nutellafreak private msg quote post Address this user
http://exrx.net/Muscles/PectoralisClavicular.html
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nutellafreak private msg quote post Address this user
http://exrx.net/Muscles/PectoralisSternal.html

Is this all bs? Just wondering
Post 45 IP   flag post
The Dark
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eknight private msg quote post Address this user
@nutellafreak why is it BS? The links both note that the point of insertion is the Humerus (Proximal Anterior)
Intertubercular Groove (Outer Lip). How do you suppose that one portion of the pectoralis can create any movement of the shoulder joint without the other one simultaneously contracting as well?? -3X
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nutellafreak private msg quote post Address this user
I was asking not telling,

Theres 2 muscles in chest right? Upper and lower thats what the diagram shows. Just wondering
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The Dark
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eknight private msg quote post Address this user
No, there are not two muscles in the chest. There is ONE muscle- the pectoralis major. It has two heads, just like the biceps brachii has a short head and long head. The diagram even says at the top of the page PECTORALIS MAJOR on both pages. -3X
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Hewy007 private msg quote post Address this user
The insertion is at the same point, but the origin isn't. Doesn't that mean that different movements will cause more of a contraction when different movement patters occur?

Probably not, just a question tho
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Hewy007 private msg quote post Address this user
I guess the origin is so close it would make any difference
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The Dark
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eknight private msg quote post Address this user
@Hewy007 different movements *may* but not enough to generate noticeable hypertrophy gains. When the pectoralis contracts the entire thing- both heads- pull the humerus from the insertion point. There's no way to have one be more "slack" than the other. -3X
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