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Incline bench and upper chest7794

AarronStenner private msg quote post Address this user
Trying to tell your general gym person that you cant target upper chest and why is such a hard task in it self I dont bother anymore
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AustralianOak private msg quote post Address this user
Although sometimes good old Arnie isn't the best example for training (still love him), he is cited for having one of the best ever chests and his routine went like this:

Bench Press
Incline Bench Press
Dips
Pullovers
Cable Crossovers
Flyes

He had a huge upper chest simply by doing these so called "middle chest" or lower chest movements.

Thoughts?
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adam82a private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustralianOak
Although sometimes good old Arnie isn't the best example for training (still love him), he is cited for having one of the best ever chests and his routine went like this:

Bench Press
Incline Bench Press
Dips
Pullovers
Cable Crossovers
Flyes

He had a huge upper chest simply by doing these so called "middle chest" or lower chest movements.

Thoughts?


Genetics
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The Dark
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eknight private msg quote post Address this user
Completely agree, genetics. Trying to make your own body look like a pros is like trying to be as fast as an Olympic sprinter by following their training program- it'll never happen. You'll be as fast as your own genetics allow you to be, but you're not getting good medals any time soon. -3X
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Cannonball private msg quote post Address this user
I've asked for links to the studies. Don't know how it's so hard to believe; trapz are also a single muscle where one part can be excluded from another, same with pecs. I know it's feather-shaped, but for it to fully engage in a miltary press while in a neutral position would be counter-productive.
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Traps are in no way the same. They have more than one point of insertion (clavicle and scapula), so they have the ability to move two separate bones by contracting. The pectoralis ONLY inserts on the humerus, and thus only moves one bone. You understand anatomy well enough to understand why you can't compare the two, right?

Either way, you can't exclude one portion of the traps when focusing on the other, only shift emphasis, which, again, is because of the separate points of insertion. -3X
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AverageJoe private msg quote post Address this user
HOMEWORK THIS WEEK GUYS:

Learn all insertions, origins and actions of the muscle.

Then we'll debate isolation of upper chest
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haole private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by eknight
Variety. Greater front delt recruitment. Genetics dictates the shape of your chest. You can build a well-developed and proportioned chest doing nothing but flat presses. -3X


This^^^

It seems like everyone always forgets about the delts when talking about incline press. Delts can get worked pretty hard depending on the degree of incline and if your flaring out the elbows.
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THE GODFATHER wannabemuscular private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by flexdec
HOMEWORK THIS WEEK GUYS:

Learn all insertions, origins and actions of the muscle.

Then we'll debate isolation of upper chest


No we won't, please. It's been beaten to death around here. One insertion, one muscle, all of it gets worked. My guess is that people "feel" their upper chest more when doing inclines because the muscle gets stretched more at the bottom of the move.
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The Dark
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flexdec
HOMEWORK THIS WEEK GUYS:

Learn all insertions, origins and actions of the muscle.

Then we'll debate isolation of upper chest


Cliff's notes: skeletal muscle has at least one point of origin (usually nearer to the midline of the body) and at least one point of insertion (usually further from the midline). When muscle contracts it does so by bringing the point of insertion closer to the point of origin. If a muscle only has one point of insertion, it can only perform one action- bringing that bone which it is attached to (or attempting to bring it) closer to the point of origin. It can not preferentially contract one area of the muscle or not. Likewise muscles with multiple points of insertion have the ability to bring multiple bones closer to the point of origin, and the muscle may be moved in such a way that one area is contracted to a greater degree than another, but there is still no "isolation." The entire muscle still contracts. This is true even in a muscle like the deltoids, where, at all times, even when doing movements not specifically "targeting" one head, all three heads are working to prevent dislocation of the humeral head of the upper arm. -3X
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adam82a private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by eknight
Quote:
Originally Posted by flexdec
HOMEWORK THIS WEEK GUYS:

Learn all insertions, origins and actions of the muscle.

Then we'll debate isolation of upper chest


Cliff's notes: skeletal muscle has at least one point of origin (usually nearer to the midline of the body) and at least one point of insertion (usually further from the midline). When muscle contracts it does so by bringing the point of insertion closer to the point of origin. If a muscle only has one point of insertion, it can only perform one action- bringing that bone which it is attached to (or attempting to bring it) closer to the point of origin. It can not preferentially contract one area of the muscle or not. Likewise muscles with multiple points of insertion have the ability to bring multiple bones closer to the point of origin, and the muscle may be moved in such a way that one area is contracted to a greater degree than another, but there is still no "isolation." The entire muscle still contracts. This is true even in a muscle like the deltoids, where, at all times, even when doing movements not specifically "targeting" one head, all three heads are working to prevent dislocation of the humeral head of the upper arm. -3X


This was quite informative actually, I have a stupid question though. What is the difference between the point of origin and point of insertion? Point of insertion is the part that moves and point of origin is the part that doesnt?
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The Dark
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Generally a muscle contracts by pulling its insertion toward its origin. -3X
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tuco private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by flexdec
HOMEWORK THIS WEEK GUYS:

Learn all insertions, origins and actions of the muscle.

Then we'll debate isolation of upper chest


i think no one is talking about ISOLATION, just emphasis. either way (if i read ek's post right) this can't happen with the pec cause it has only one point of insertion.
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BBS private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by eknight
Generally a muscle contracts by pulling its insertion toward its origin. -3X


for an open chain exercise...
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NorIda private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by tuco
Quote:
Originally Posted by flexdec
HOMEWORK THIS WEEK GUYS:

Learn all insertions, origins and actions of the muscle.

Then we'll debate isolation of upper chest


i think no one is talking about ISOLATION, just emphasis. either way (if i read ek's post right) this can't happen with the pec cause it has only one point of insertion.


right, You can't shift emphasis, because there's nowhere to shift it to.
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The Dark
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BBS
Quote:
Originally Posted by eknight
Generally a muscle contracts by pulling its insertion toward its origin. -3X


for an open chain exercise...


As opposed to? I'm not even referring to exercises- I'm referring to the general behavior of skeletal muscle. You're not actually implying that when you squat (a closed chain movement) your quads are not causing your lower leg (insertion on tibia) to move closer to your upper leg (origins on femur and ilium) via knee extension are you? -3X
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Thedude67 private msg quote post Address this user
This thread is a win...
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BBS private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by eknight
Quote:
Originally Posted by BBS
Quote:
Originally Posted by eknight
Generally a muscle contracts by pulling its insertion toward its origin. -3X


for an open chain exercise...


As opposed to? I'm not even referring to exercises- I'm referring to the general behavior of skeletal muscle. You're not actually implying that when you squat (a closed chain movement) your quads are not causing your lower leg (insertion on tibia) to move closer to your upper leg (origins on femur and ilium) via knee extension are you? -3X


as opposed to a closed chain exercise where origin moves closer to insertion because the distal bone (insertion point) is fixed.
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BBS private msg quote post Address this user
either way there is muscle contraction. Lol.
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The Dark
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eknight private msg quote post Address this user
@BBS that's a bit of an issue with semantics, is it not? The contraction is still from insertion to origin- the movement is fixed so it causes movement in the opposite direction, yes, but the contraction doesn't change. -3X
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BBS private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by eknight
@BBS that's a bit of an issue with semantics, is it not? The contraction is still from insertion to origin- the movement is fixed so it causes movement in the opposite direction, yes, but the contraction doesn't change. -3X


you got it man, contraction none the less which is the point of this thread I believe
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