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G3NGHIS private msg quote post Address this user
If you go to Google and type in Upper Chest and go to images, there is a condescending Wonka that links back here

PROGRESS HAS NOT BEEN DESTROYED
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KalletSc private msg quote post Address this user
This question has always been on my mind. How does decline hit the chest differently than incline/flat? i know it's less shoulder involvement but is there any other benefit..or cons? I recently just started doing declines again.
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THE GODFATHER wannabemuscular private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by G3NGHIS
If you go to Google and type in Upper Chest and go to images, there is a condescending Wonka that links back here

PROGRESS HAS NOT BEEN DESTROYED


Hysterical! I had to see what you were talking about so I went to google and searched "upper chest". Sure enough:


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dwatson private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by wannabemuscular
Quote:
Originally Posted by sickrykes
so... does anyone still do incline?


I do inclines with every chest workout. I love them.


TSG has me doing some sort of incline 2x week. Still think they are a great exercise, however w/ the tempo and set/rep range i feel like an absolute pussy. But i also have been told i have pecs of steel and been asked to touch them. I told the guy no he couldn't.
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THE GODFATHER wannabemuscular private msg quote post Address this user
@dwatson - awh come on, give the guy a little touch.
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david12345676 private msg quote post Address this user
i like this thread
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Maarten private msg quote post Address this user
An electromyography analysis of 3 muscles surrounding the shoulder joint during the performance of a chest press exercise at several angles. (Trebs, 2010)

electromyographical activity of the pectoralis muscle during incline and decline bench press. (Glass, 1997)



- an EMG Analysis of the Bench Press. (Duffey, 2008)
Regarding the study that Henselmans and EK bought brought up.

I'm just posting some links of studies, haven't had time to read all of them.

+ while searching, I found this:
Avoiding Shoulder Injury From Resistance Training. (Durall, 2001)
Post 32 IP   flag post
Maarten private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maarten
+ Link


What the full study tells me, is that during incline press:

• Activity of the sternocostal head is less


• Activity of the clavicular head is significantly greater


• Activity of the anterior deltoid is greater



Other activities:
• Triceps:


• Lats:



But this still shows, that the sternal head, had some activity during the incline press, which states EK's claim.
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Markovich private msg quote post Address this user
It's unbelievable that certified trainers don't know information like this.
When I first started my gym the personal trainer used stuff like "lower abs" "upper chest" and how to make your chest and lats wider with a certain exercise. Found out on SS that it's mostly bullshit
Post 34 IP   flag post
Maarten private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by eknight
Secondly, while the clavicular head is more active, if I recall the full study correctly, the sternal head is also more active.

But not during the incline press movement, then, the activity is of the sternal head is less active
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The Dark
Knight
eknight private msg quote post Address this user
Some limitations from the Trebs study:
*Sub-maximal contractions when measuring EMG. The group used a weight of 70% 1RM, but only lifted it once, with this trial repeated twice. Sub-maximal contractions are used to control factors caused by fatigue such as limb position, rep cadence, etc and it limits the results to the early reps of a set, leaving us guessing at what happens later on.
* Allowed subjects to self-select grip width. Although there was some control involved (min. shoulder width), the possibility exists that recruitment could differ because of this. They also used a smith machine, which is not- as we all agree- the same as free weights.
* I don't have access to the full article, but according to a reviewer of the article, (Jared Carr, of MaitlandBarbell.com): "Trebs’ group found that 44° (compared to 0°, 28° and 56°) resulted in the greatest activation levels, although the effect size was rather small. It seems that if greater inclinations cause greater recruitment of the upper pecs, the outcome may be insignificant."

From the Glass article you cited: "No significant differences were seen in upper pectoral activation between incline and ecline press. It is concluded there are variations in the activation of the lower pectoralis major with regard to the angle of bench press, while the upper pectoral portion is unchanged."

At this point, I don't know what your point is. I was hoping to avoind having to drag out all these studies yet again, but for whatever reason you're determined to argur the point, so...

Barnett, C., et al. (1995) showed that the clavicular head showed no significant difference in EMG activity from the horizontal to the incline position but was least active during the decline bench press. "

Barnett, C., et al (1995), also found this to be true, noting "The incline press does not result in greater activation of the clavicular head of the pectoralis major than the horizontal bench press." (http://www.daveywaveyfitness.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/Effects-of-Variations-of-the-Bench-Press-Exercise-on-the-EMG-Activity-of-Five-Shoulder-Muscles.pdf)

Glass, S. C., & Armstrong, T. also found this to be true, concluding that, "there was no significant difference in activation of the upper pectoral portion during either the incline or decline bench press."
http://www.thesportjournal.org/article/optimizing-development-pectoralis-major

From wannagetbig.com:

"MYTH 1. Specific portions of a muscle can be trained

The gist of this myth goes something like this, “You can hit the lower portion of your pecs with decline presses.” Any statement similar to this is pure B.S. The implication is that doing decline presses will make the lower portion of your pecs larger. This is physiologically impossible. The pectoralis major are the two muscles that we commonly refer to as the chest. There are also the pectoralis minor which runs underneath the upper portion of the major. The pectoralis major, when stimulated with exercise and allowed to recover will grow. It will grow as a whole (as with all muscles), not in sections. So doing an incline, decline, or flat bench press will not make your pectoralis major grow in different fashions.

The shape of your muscle is genetically determined by its origin and insertion points and no training will change this."

http://www.wannabebig.com/training/bodybuilding/five-of-the-top-bodybuilding-myths-exploded/


@Maarten you know that your pectoralis is ONE muscle, not two, right? There's no "upper/lower" pectoralis in terms of actual anatomy. When a muscle contracts, it contracts from point of insertion (in this case the humerus) toward the origin. The pectoralis only has ONE point of insertion; it only moves ONE bone. This is a basic rule of anatomy and physiology. The entire muscle is bundled and attached in ONE spot, so there's no way for only part of that bundle to receive an electrical stimulation and not the rest of it. Think of a two pronged plug, plugging into a wall, like this:




What you're claiming is that electric current would only be running through ONE of those prongs, but not the other, and that the current would still be flowing. See how that's not possible? -3X
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Maarten private msg quote post Address this user
Thanks EK!

I'm just keen on learning the correct thing here. And I fully understand the anatomics (since I'm a medical student, this is kinda required).
This also shows through the study of Barnett, even during the vertical press, there's been measured activity of the sternal head.

But there's a difference between incline and horizontal press movements, so it's still great to do both (that's what my conclusion to this discussion is).
If you have a different, or more elaborated conclusion. Please share!
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The Dark
Knight
eknight private msg quote post Address this user
Yes doing both is great, and if you're a med student, you should know better than to get anatomy advice from bodybuilders, lol. -3X
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david12345676 private msg quote post Address this user
so much knowledge flowing here
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Maarten private msg quote post Address this user
@eknight : I'm always sceptical when a big roided BB'er is trying to give me advice, so not to worry! But I'm really keen on knowing everything, that's why I brought it back up. And Henselmans has these great articles on the official SS site, so I thought 'I'll ask him'. But I guess he made his conclusions too quick.
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Markovich private msg quote post Address this user
I just can't wait to overhear some of my friends talkin about upper or lower chest again. Trying to remember all the info I just read haha :p
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