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so training to failure is not good?6952

GregC private msg quote post Address this user
Iv always trained to failure and always made good progress. But would stopping a rep short before make my progress better? I am currently running PHAT.
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NorIda private msg quote post Address this user
Yes, if you stop 1-2 reps before failure, you're overall workload is going to be greater.. Meaning Morrreeee Gaiiinnnzzzzzz
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mikew private msg quote post Address this user
@NorIda glad you posted in this thread. I was wondering how you approached this stuff.

Personally, I'll do at least one MAX effort set on the compound lift of the day then work like hell on other sets but not quite to the point of failure.
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Zny93 private msg quote post Address this user
Thanks for the info though it's not my thread. But how exactly does that work out? I figured more work = more gains.
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NorIda private msg quote post Address this user
time under tension, progressive overload, overall workload etc... it alllll increases if you don't go to failure.

You're going to be able to do more reps, for more sets, stopping slightly before failure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zny93
Thanks for the info though it's not my thread. But how exactly does that work out? I figured more work = more gains.


More work does mean more gains. But if you do a set of 8 reps, instead of a set of 10 reps(Failure), your next set is going to easily be at 8 reps, rather than ~6 if you went to failure prior to that.

So a slightly lighter weight, at more reps, is going to increase overall poundage lifted.


Hope that makes sense! Rushing as I'm slammed at work atm
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NorIda private msg quote post Address this user
@mikew

Like everything else, I use it as a tool.

Personally I can't go to failure on the Big lifts, as I workout alone and its not safe. But if I'm using a machine, on Hypertrophy day, I'll consider going to failure on my last set if I'm stuck at a certain weight. But not often.
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SwoleAnimal private msg quote post Address this user
Intradasting. I would usually go to failure on everything but I will try this approach. May finally be able to increase my lifts!
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Zny93 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by NorIda


More work does mean more gains. But if you do a set of 8 reps, instead of a set of 10 reps(Failure), your next set is going to easily be at 8 reps, rather than ~6 if you went to failure prior to that.


Ah okay, I understand more. Such as going to your max lets say at 100 for 10 reps but only being able to do 100 lbs for 5 more reps will be 1500 lbs. where if I did less at 80 lbs for 20 reps ittl be 1600, yeah?
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NorIda private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zny93
Quote:
Originally Posted by NorIda


More work does mean more gains. But if you do a set of 8 reps, instead of a set of 10 reps(Failure), your next set is going to easily be at 8 reps, rather than ~6 if you went to failure prior to that.


Ah okay, I understand more. Such as going to your max lets say at 100 for 10 reps but only being able to do 100 lbs for 5 more reps will be 1500 lbs. where if I did less at 80 lbs for 20 reps ittl be 1600, yeah?


Essentially yessir!
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Zny93 private msg quote post Address this user
@Norlda Ah, common sense prevails again, thanks!
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NorIda private msg quote post Address this user
Haha, no problem..

It def looks cooler to throw around heavier weights. But cool isn't always optimal
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FijiSotia private msg quote post Address this user
I find not going to failure isn't as taxing as going to failure, seems to allow me to train much more frequently and with more volume since they recover more easily. And I looooove volume training haha
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dwatson private msg quote post Address this user
It has its place. I wouldn't say its bad because if you use it properly it can aid to growth.

For instance.
Compound - stop 1-2 shy for 3-5 reps
Compound Secondary - same stop 1-2 shy
Auxiliary - stop 1 shy possibly go to fail last set
Auxiliary secondary - fail all 3 sets
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NorIda private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by dwatson
It has its place. I wouldn't say its bad because if you use it properly it can aid to growth.

For instance.
Compound - stop 1-2 shy for 3-5 reps
Compound Secondary - same stop 1-2 shy
Auxiliary - stop 1 shy possibly go to fail last set
Auxiliary secondary - fail all 3 sets


I am NorIda, I do not fail.

jk, but seriously. Like You're saying. Its a tool, don't over or under use it. Utilize it!
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GregC private msg quote post Address this user
Makes sense. thanks brahs!
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SRorhrbac0808 private msg quote post Address this user
Going to failure burns me the fck out... Learned my lessons the hard way.... Stoping shy of failure BOOM!!! GROWTH and feel 10x more alpha
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In4gainZ private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zny93
Quote:
Originally Posted by NorIda


More work does mean more gains. But if you do a set of 8 reps, instead of a set of 10 reps(Failure), your next set is going to easily be at 8 reps, rather than ~6 if you went to failure prior to that.


Ah okay, I understand more. Such as going to your max lets say at 100 for 10 reps but only being able to do 100 lbs for 5 more reps will be 1500 lbs. where if I did less at 80 lbs for 20 reps ittl be 1600, yeah?

Not accurate at all, so bench press 225 x 10 is better than 400 x 5? Lol
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The Dark
Knight
eknight private msg quote post Address this user
Depends on your goals. I was hitting 405 for 3, but didn't get real growth till I stopped training like a powerlifter and begain training like a bodybuilder. -3X
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tamere01 private msg quote post Address this user
Wouldnt failure be better when doing a strength routine. E.g 5x 1-5 reps on bench with a heavyweight shouldnt you pic a weight that will make you fail in that rep range?
Confused.com
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NorIda private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by In4gainZ
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zny93
Quote:
Originally Posted by NorIda


More work does mean more gains. But if you do a set of 8 reps, instead of a set of 10 reps(Failure), your next set is going to easily be at 8 reps, rather than ~6 if you went to failure prior to that.


Ah okay, I understand more. Such as going to your max lets say at 100 for 10 reps but only being able to do 100 lbs for 5 more reps will be 1500 lbs. where if I did less at 80 lbs for 20 reps ittl be 1600, yeah?

Not accurate at all, so bench press 225 x 10 is better than 400 x 5? Lol


If you can do 405x5, but only 225x10, you've got bigger problems.
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In4gainZ private msg quote post Address this user
Of course not its just an example because you are looking at the total poundage for an indication of quality so if I'm working by your formula lame 225 x 10 with the total of 2250 are a lot better than 400 x 5 whice are only 2000. The way you are measuring the growth potential is completely wrong.
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NorIda private msg quote post Address this user
Lol, no. the way You're setting up the example is wrong, thus creating an inaccurate demonstration.

But clearly you are right, so I wont draw you a picture for explanation
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In4gainZ private msg quote post Address this user
Apologize if I didn't understand what you meant it just didn't seem right at all.
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NorIda private msg quote post Address this user
If 405x5 is going to be failure, you would be better off to do 405x3, for 3 sets (if your goal is Strength)

So the setup would be more closely to
405x3
405x3
405x3
=3645

rather than, if you went to failure, you're not going to be doing the same amount of reps for each set, so it would likely be close to

405x5 2025
405x2 810
405@1 405
=3240

3645
-3240
=405

So stopping two reps before failure for each set, you're able to actually complete a total of one extra rep
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alexmuller private msg quote post Address this user
For me my back has made amazing gains stopping before failure, but my chest simply DOESNT respond unless I go to failure, iv been going to failure on the last 1-2 sets for chest exercises and my chest has made CRAZY gains!
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In4gainZ private msg quote post Address this user
That's why you are going for failure on the LAST set so it won't damage the first sets
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NorIda private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by In4gainZ
That's why you are going for failure on the LAST set so it won't damage the first sets


exactly
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The Dark
Knight
eknight private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by In4gainZ
Of course not its just an example because you are looking at the total poundage for an indication of quality so if I'm working by your formula lame 225 x 10 with the total of 2250 are a lot better than 400 x 5 whice are only 2000. The way you are measuring the growth potential is completely wrong.


Growth does not occur as easily from very low rep training though. Sets of 3-5 are great for strength, joint power, and developing the CNS, but they don't get enough blood flow into the muscle to facilitate the same kind of growth as slightly higher reps. -3X
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In4gainZ private msg quote post Address this user
It depends on the different muscle anatomy of every person, and the muscle type slow/fast twitch
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The Dark
Knight
eknight private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by In4gainZ
It depends on the different muscle anatomy of every person, and the muscle type slow/fast twitch
Generally, no. Most people have the same amount of fast twitch and slow twitch fibers, unless they are in the less than 1% that are considered outliers (ie, professional athletes). As a general rule, though, anatomy doesn't change between people. -3X
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