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PHAT + Occlusion training5633

Olsenstyle private msg quote post Address this user
Does anyone have any experience with Occlusion training and PHAT? Could you please share? I am doing the original PHAT program that's featured in the simplyshredded article.

I have been reading up a little bit on Occlusion training, and I find the idea intriguing. I also just bought myself some knee wraps because I have some weak pains in my right knee after my leg days (my knee is not to happy with deep barbell squats and hacksquats).

Anyways, since I now have knee wraps I decided to test Occlusion training. I am mainly thinking about lower body hypertrophy (calfs) and chest and arms hypertrophy (biceps and possibly triceps).

Should I do Occlusion training on both calf exercises? And on how many of the biceps and triceps exercises? Would it be okay to do the same amount of reps and sets as in the program and just go down on weight?

Also, any other body parts Occlusion training could work well on?

Even if you don't have an answer to any of my specific questions you are welcome to share opinion/experience with Occlusion training. I got lower body hypertrophy tomorrow and will share my experiences!
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dwatson private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Olsenstyle
Does anyone have any experience with Occlusion training and PHAT? Could you please share? I am doing the original PHAT program that's featured in the simplyshredded article.

I have been reading up a little bit on Occlusion training, and I find the idea intriguing. I also just bought myself some knee wraps because I have some weak pains in my right knee after my leg days (my knee is not to happy with deep barbell squats and hacksquats).

Anyways, since I now have knee wraps I decided to test Occlusion training. I am mainly thinking about lower body hypertrophy (calfs) and chest and arms hypertrophy (biceps and possibly triceps).

1)Should I do Occlusion training on both calf exercises? 2)And on how many of the biceps and triceps exercises? 3)Would it be okay to do the same amount of reps and sets as in the program and just go down on weight?

4)Also, any other body parts Occlusion training could work well on?

Even if you don't have an answer to any of my specific questions you are welcome to share opinion/experience with Occlusion training. I got lower body hypertrophy tomorrow and will share my experiences!


1) Yes you can, if you do it for a long period of time, i would recommend taking 2-4 weeks off from it to give your body enough time to refuel. (CNS) I would recommend starting it on lower power day, then 2-3 weeks later, if you need, work it in on both days.

2) Choose 1 exercise per working muscle group. I did 4 clusters. 25, fail, fail, fail.

3) Refer to answer 3 for sets/reps for occlusion

4) Biceps, Triceps, Hamstrings, Quads, Calves


Hope this helps.
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Olsenstyle private msg quote post Address this user
Thanks for a fast and good answer Dwatson!

1) Why would you recommend starting on lower body power? I thought the idea was to do several high rep/low weight sets? It just seems more sensible to me to do it on the hypertrophy days since on power days the point is to go as heavy as possible while still keeping form. But I am guessing you have a good reason to recommend it so please do tell!

2) Will do! Last exercise on each working muscle group sounds good?

4) How would you do it for hamstrings and quads? Do you fasten the knee wraps on the upper part of your thighs? And what exercises would you recommend (keep in mind that I am doing the original PHAT)? Occlusion for hamstrings and quads sounds kinda scary since I always get a epic pump on lower body hypertrophy days!

And again, thanks for the help Dwatson! Really appreciate it!
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dwatson private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Olsenstyle
Thanks for a fast a good answer Dwatson!

1) Why would you recommend starting on lower body power? I thought the idea was to do several high rep/low weight sets? It just seems more sensible to me to do it on the hypertrophy days since on power days the point is to go as heavy as possible while still keeping form. But I am guessing you have a good reason to recommend it so please do tell!

2) Will do! Last exercise on each working muscle group sounds good?

4) How would you do it for hamstrings and quads? Do you fasten the knee wraps on the upper part of your thighs? And what exercises would you recommend (keep in mind that I am doing the original PHAT)? Occlusion for hamstrings and quads sounds kinda scary since I always get a epic pump on lower body hypertrophy days!

And again, thanks for the help Dwatson! Really appreciate it!


1) The whole point of occlusion training, is to basically trick your body into thinking its moving heavy weight. A lot of people will do occlusion training when coming off an injury because its affects your body like it would going heavy. (Not saying you should never go heavy, this is something to cycle in or include for heavy days)

2) Correct, go through the normal routine, and end with occlusion, do not start with it. You will completely empty any glcogen left in your body, plus mentally/physically drain yourself.

3)I would occlude up high as possible and for quads do leg extensions, for hams do leg curls.

Calves hurt the most out of any muscle group. Make sure the strap is tight on all groups (7/10 for pain, 6/10 on calves)

Hope this helps!
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Olsenstyle private msg quote post Address this user
1) So I should actually only do occlusion on my power days?

I'm really looking forward to testing it now! I think I got a pretty good idea of how to do it properly. Thanks for all the advice!
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dwatson private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Olsenstyle
1) So I should actually only do occlusion on my power days?

I'm really looking forward to testing it now! I think I got a pretty good idea of how to do it properly. Thanks for all the advice!


I would start on power days, then if you feel necessary do it on bot days.

See these threads for more info.

Dwatson Video: Occlusion Training

Layne Norton, Occlusion training
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EFJK private msg quote post Address this user
Why would you use occlusion training on your power days? Occlusion training is meant for using lighter loads with a much higher rep volume to accomplish its purpose..and with occlusion training you lose some of that power that you should be focusing on for your power days for strength gains.

Also, there's no need to use occlusion on both days. It's something that shouldn't be used in excess like that. If you're hitting a muscle group two times a week, once a week at the most you should incorporate it.
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dwatson private msg quote post Address this user
If you read what i said above, you wouldn't lose any 'of that power' that should be focused on heavy training, bc its at the end of his split.

Also, when my legs were laggin, Dr. Layne Norton had me doing occlusion on both leg days, so i would say your wrong and yes there is certain scenarios when it is recommended to be used on both days.


Quote:
Originally Posted by EFJK
Once a week at the most you should incorporate it.


Dr. Wilson, who spent countless hours researching this explained you could easily do occlusion training 2-3 times a week for laggin muscle groups. There is NO data saying 1 time a week is all you should do.
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EFJK private msg quote post Address this user
Well first off, occlusion training hasn't been around long enough to have proper statistical evidence that it leads to an increase in muscle growth, strength gains, or anything else. Only smaller studies have been conducted which appear to provide some positive results. So really there's no data saying using occlusion 2-3 times a week for lagging muscle groups either

I've always trained and always found in my research of training to do both strength training AND training for muscle growth, as in hypertrophy for example. Therefore, I'd rather dedicate the majority of one day to each type of training like that, especially with a newer concept like that of occlusion before I throw that into every one of my workouts for a muscle group.
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Olsenstyle private msg quote post Address this user
I'm not gonna throw it in for every muscle group. I will try it for calfs on the end of a lower body day. If i like it I might try it on biceps and triceps as well.

Got a question to dwatson though. Using a pwo which increase blood flow will make occlusion less effective?
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EFJK private msg quote post Address this user
Not really. The blood restriction during occlusion training is effective while you are training with wraps on. That is, you're forcing your Type II fibers to engage much more in the movement of the weight. I don't see why increasing blood flow after your session would mitigate the effects of occlusion at all.
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Olsenstyle private msg quote post Address this user
I'm talking about increasing blood flow pre workout, not after.
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Olsenstyle private msg quote post Address this user
A little update. Calf occlusion training is one of the most fucking painful things I have ever done! Calfs feel sore as hell when done!!! But calfs are supposed to be the most painful muscle group to do occlusion training on? I think I will try biceps as well.
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EFJK private msg quote post Address this user
Biceps will hurt pretty good as well, as will triceps.

Ah, well it shouldn't matter pre-workout anyway. If your wraps are applied properly, blood will be restricted as much as you are looking for.
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dwatson private msg quote post Address this user
EFJK answered the questions fine. IMO for pain: #1- calves, #2-Tri's, #3-Biceps. Thats just for me though.
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Olsenstyle private msg quote post Address this user
I guess I will have to try triceps and biceps on saturday then. Can't say I'm looking forward to it, but if the gains are good then I guess it's worth it.

But is there really a need to do as many sets as Layne suggest in his article for ironmanmagazine? I had to take a little break in the middle because of the pain and because it would take more then 10 min to complete (Layne recommended no more then 10 min at a time)
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AarronStenner private msg quote post Address this user
Try forearms youl squeel like a pig
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dwatson private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Olsenstyle
I guess I will have to try triceps and biceps on saturday then. Can't say I'm looking forward to it, but if the gains are good then I guess it's worth it.

But is there really a need to do as many sets as Layne suggest in his article for ironmanmagazine? I had to take a little break in the middle because of the pain and because it would take more then 10 min to complete (Layne recommended no more then 10 min at a time)


I do 45 sec breaks between sets
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Olsenstyle private msg quote post Address this user
But the same ammount of sets and reps as Layne recommended? I'm gonna try it for sure! Calfs are still sore as hell! Wondering how they will feel tomorrow!!!
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NorIda private msg quote post Address this user
4-6 clusters!
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MRc private msg quote post Address this user
Anyway occlusion training could be done with shoulders? I have tried many things to get my shoulders to grow and they just seem to be the hardest muscle for me to develop any tips??
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