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c3pOMG private msg quote post Address this user
question for you guys who achieved big pecs.
when you do incline press, how wide is your grip and where do you bring the bar down to touch? elbow position? im not working for strength with it, im in the 8-10 rep range.

i use a wide grip like a guillitine press and bring it down around my collar bone, elboys flared. basically i do a guillitine press on incline.

it feels like it hits all chest, delts dont get fried, tricepts normally hold up well to.

does anyone have a better more effective way to do them or is that correct?

thanks
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dwatson private msg quote post Address this user
Hand placement is irrelevant. Going wider is know to be more prone to tares. I always go until i hit my chest, dont switch my style up for any of the 'presses'.

EK is a bench press expert, he should be able to answer your questions.
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Dragonian private msg quote post Address this user
agreed with dwatson on the touch chest but i personally have started widening my grip and my friend was taught by mr britian and thats what he adised me, it certainly isolates your chest and brings in less involvement from secondary muscles but as dwatson said it probably does make you more prone to tares and it stretches your chest alot!
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c3pOMG private msg quote post Address this user
ok when you bring it down, where on your chest do you touch the bar? nipple, below nipple, upper part of the pec, or higher like around the collar bone?
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Swayz87 private msg quote post Address this user
For inclines...Right above deee nip!!!! thats for bar placement...NOW as for hand grip placement...

Ya man wide grip is going to work the outter pecs more...dont believe me? Try it and feel that shit ya self...to do more inner pecs like the crevice ravine you see on alot of dudes that runs up the middle of there chest to there clavical. You would do a closer grip!!! I would reccomend close grip over wide ANY DAY!!! unless you really want the part of the chest on the out side to be really big basically the fibers that run from your shoulder down the side of your pec to the bottom of your pec mostly the area closes to the shoulder....


In conclusion...Do closer grip for over all better looking upper chest
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The Dark
Knight
eknight private msg quote post Address this user
If you're basically doing a guillotine press anyway, I would advise doing it on a flat bench to handle heavier weight (and thus recruit more fibers) as well as diminishing front delt involvement. Contrarily, if you stay with an incline, I'd consider a more conventional bar placement, slightly lower than where you're at now. -EK
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c3pOMG private msg quote post Address this user
the only problem i have with a closer grip is, when i go down, i feel a strain in my rear delts and feel like i use them more to push the weight back up than my using my chest. and once im half way up, i feel it a lot more in my tri's than my chest.
think that could just be bad form?

i do dumbell presses with a closer grip, (the inside of the dumbell touches the outside of my pec, below armpit) and i feel that more in my inner chest.
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Swayz87 private msg quote post Address this user
Mmm no offense ya Im thinkin so..BUT you can always take a vid an post it so we can tell you!!!

Also yaaaa man no way in hell bench is doing anything to your rear delts they aren't even used to push the weight up they are a pulling muscle not pushing. They got used in rows not bench. The tri thing I under stand...but im sayin close grip..but not like that close!
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The Dark
Knight
eknight private msg quote post Address this user
Absolutley your rear delts are affected by bench pressing. They are the biggest muscle used to stabilize the very small rotator cuff muscles underneath. I suppose your lats have no effect on bench pressing either? Your lats, rhomboids, and rear delts all work to decelerate and stabilize weight on the way down- you know, when it's placing the glenohumeral joint in its position of least mechanical leverage? Why do you think so many world class powerlifters train their backs almost entirely in the same plane of movement as the bench press (ie, rows only, no chins or lat pulls)? It's to increase strength and stability in the eccentric portion of the lift. -EK
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c3pOMG private msg quote post Address this user
ek
so its normal to feel that strain?
its more predominant when my hands are shoulder width. when i go with the wider grip its not so bad.
i hear a lot that the closer grip will fill out the inner pecs more. is that broscience or a fact? im asking you because ive read a lot of your posts about benching and respesct your opinion.
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The Dark
Knight
eknight private msg quote post Address this user
The fibers of your pecs run from inside to out. There is no way to hit the inner portion more, irrespective of grip width or angle. It's not like trying to work sternal or clavicular heads. In terms of rear delt pain, when I was still competing, I would always do 3-4 sets of rear delt work before my heavy bench days to get some blood flowing, and it seemed to help alleviate any pain I was having. -EK
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c3pOMG private msg quote post Address this user
alright! thanks a lot for the info!
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The Dark
Knight
eknight private msg quote post Address this user
Before the name-slinging and broscience comes in, this is a quote from Layne himself regarding "inner pec" development:

"I believe he previously claimed that closed grip bench hit the inner pecs. I'm sorry but this is downright untrue. When a muscle fiber contracts... all the motor units along the fiber contract, if you could isolate the inner chest, then you would see about a one inch long part of your chest contract into a tiny little ball... obviously this does not occur."

"you cannot target a certain horizontal area on a fiber as all of the muscle units on the individual fiber contract during an exercise, it doesn't matter if you do cable flyes, bench press, pick what you like, the fiber contracts along the entire length. It is possible to place more tension on areas like upper and lower chest by changing angles... but impossible to isolate them."

If you disagree with me- and ultimately Layne- on said topic, take it up with him. -EK
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c3pOMG private msg quote post Address this user
I hope this doesnt start another one of those arguments about upper peck/inner pec development. ive seen a bunch of those on here.

my only intention was to get an idea and maybe a consensus of where on the chest people bring the bar down to touch and the width of grip and elbow flares.
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Dragonian private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by c3pOMG
I hope this doesnt start another one of those arguments about upper peck/inner pec development. ive seen a bunch of those on here.

my only intention was to get an idea and maybe a consensus of where on the chest people bring the bar down to touch and the width of grip and elbow flares.


totally solve your problem with rear delts right now. I used to have really bad pain in rear delts when incline benching i had to take a day off last week aswell because it got that bad after chest day. I Started doing rotator cuff work using my elbow resting on a surface with a 90 bend in my upper and low arm and then raise a dumbell so it pointed toward the wall then aimed at the ceiling that was a rep. Repeat that mvoement on every upper body day for 2 sets with a light weight around 15 reps. that solves my pain and its all gone and my shoulders feel better than ever
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Swayz87 private msg quote post Address this user
It is possible to place more tension on areas like upper and lower chest by changing angles... but impossible to isolate them."



^^^^
Thats alllllll I needed to see.

1.No one is saying it can Isolate them....thats just plain




2.Place more tension...aka one area is working harder then other areas...(wonder what that would lead to....)

No need to argue the fact is plain above...Plain to 100% of IFBB Pros Plain to Natty Pros Plain to fitness models...just easy as fuck plain
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The Dark
Knight
eknight private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swayz87

Ya man wide grip is going to work the outter pecs more...dont believe me? Try it and feel that shit ya self...to do more inner pecs like the crevice ravine you see on alot of dudes that runs up the middle of there chest to there clavical. You would do a closer grip!!!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Layne

I believe he previously claimed that closed grip bench hit the inner pecs. I'm sorry but this is downright untrue.


Now...tell me again, Mr. Bench Press, how rear delts have no impact on benching? -EK


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Swayz87 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Layne

I believe he previously claimed that closed grip bench hit the inner pecs. I'm sorry but this is downright untrue.


Now...tell me again, Mr. Bench Press, how rear delts have no impact on benching? -EK




Lulz Why does it say Layne said that??? thats your quote...of a quote. Secondly...since that whole quote is just plain full of fucks aka HERP DERP...who the hell is I in that quote and who the hell is HE!?!? cause that quote is in like fuggin 4th person or something craaaazzzyy!!!


Oh and DURRRR Stablizing shit isn't even considered to be worked out ANYWHERE in BBing BRB name any split where they say not to work "stabilizing muscles" the next day? They dont cause its so insignificant that it doesn even come to mind. Durrr Shoulders stablize and back are used to stablize when doing curls...You sure as hell dont feel pain from them when doing curls do ya? Nor does anyone say oh dont do shoulders tomorrow...we did Bis today!





SRS the very though of anyone EVER saying that...just makes me FAF so hard I almost DERRRRP!!!

hahahaha Mr Bench Press.....Were talking Inner Pec development here...or did we switch to benching!?!?

I mean by all means your def the expert on lifting heavy on bench...but pretty sure none of this entire thread even has anything to do with lifting heavy bench..nope...re read the whole thread...didn find shit up power lifting at all...oh well maybe your expertise will be needed one day....you can still be our Token Fat Old Has been guy trying to feel like ya still cool/important. Every BB forum needs one! we are incomplete with out you!
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The Dark
Knight
eknight private msg quote post Address this user
The quote is FROM LAYNE. I get that reading comprehension is not your strong point, and if something doesn't have pictures attached you don't really understand it, so I will try to dumb it down as much as I can:

1. You're wrong.
2. For reference on how much YOU'RE needed, review here: http://forum.simplyshredded.com/topic/2691/page/1/swayzs-carbsugariifym-rant-gtfih/

How'd it feel when the entire board basically told you to STFU? Remember that shit when your head gets big around here. -EK
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Dexdbest private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by eknight
The quote is FROM LAYNE. I get that reading comprehension is not your strong point, and if something doesn't have pictures attached you don't really understand it, so I will try to dumb it down as much as I can:

1. You're wrong.
2. For reference on how much YOU'RE needed, review here: http://forum.simplyshredded.com/topic/2691/page/1/swayzs-carbsugariifym-rant-gtfih/

How'd it feel when the entire board basically told you to STFU? Remember that shit when your head gets big around here. -EK

eric is back, and this time, he aint backing down for nobody
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c3pOMG private msg quote post Address this user
ok i think this is another thread that got out of hand.
my orginal question was not about inner pec development, or upper pec development.
i just wanted a consensus from guys about where they touch when they lower the bar and width of grip. thats it! anyone who has a full chest and the experience to tell me what worked best for them is all i really wanna know.

i appreaciate your input but this thread got totally off topic.
Post 21 IP   flag post
Dexdbest private msg quote post Address this user
^ bro your thread is about to get reeeeeaaaaalllly long. Just relax and enjoy it, when this two get started, there is no stopping the,. Grab a bag of popcorn and just enjoy, the joy of bb forums are threads that get out of hand
Post 22 IP   flag post
The Dark
Knight
eknight private msg quote post Address this user
Nope. Done here. I apologize to C3PO for derailing his thread. S can continue arguing if he wishes. He's got to have the last word no matter what, even when people with more knowledge (ie, Layne Norton) have specifically said, "You can/can't do" whatever it is S believes in. Not here to indulge his behavior. I came back to learn from those of you who have real knowledge and to help out where I can. -EK
Post 23 IP   flag post
Dexdbest private msg quote post Address this user
In an obviously futile attempt to find a middle ground and save everyone the headache of another 12 round ek/swayz battle, i'll say this, if a muscle has two or three heads then there are ways to focus more on them but not isolate them e.g when you do shoulder presses you work all the deltoid head but the greatest stress is on the anterior head, if you want to put more stress on the medial head, you do lateral raises, the anterior and posterior are still working but not as much. Same for chest, you can focus on the clavicular more than the sterncostal but you are not isolating it, as for inner pecs, no such thing exists, its just like saying inner legs. Sterncostal(lower) and clavicular(upper) only. Please, when i started working out i wasted time doing exercise for inner and outter and middle pecs and i had the worst pec developement ever, 36 inch pecs man, when i cut through the broscience and focusd on clavicular and sterncostal i began to see gains. Im at 39 inches now and still growing
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Dexdbest private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by eknight
Nope. Done here. I apologize to C3PO for derailing his thread. S can continue arguing if he wishes. He's got to have the last word no matter what, even when people with more knowledge (ie, Layne Norton) have specifically said, "You can/can't do" whatever it is S believes in. Not here to indulge his behavior. I came back to learn from those of you who have real knowledge and to help out where I can. -EK

this i respect. You are truly a boss, sir. Also, out of curiousity, who are the ones with real knowledge?
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The Dark
Knight
eknight private msg quote post Address this user
Anyone with enough knowledge to admit when they're wrong. -EK
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Swayz87 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by eknight
The quote is FROM LAYNE. I get that reading comprehension is not your strong point, and if something doesn't have pictures attached you don't really understand it, so I will try to dumb it down as much as I can:

1. You're wrong.
2. For reference on how much YOU'RE needed, review here: http://forum.simplyshredded.com/topic/2691/page/1/swayzs-carbsugariifym-rant-gtfih/

How'd it feel when the entire board basically told you to STFU? Remember that shit when your head gets big around here. -EK


LULZ!!! Sorry brah got straight 31 on my reading and comprehension thus why I filter through most of your Bull shit so easily.

But lulz sooooo now that you didn explain a damn thing....back to the quote...you just said layne said that...K so AGAIN for the SECOND time...We established layne in the person saying the quote but he says "I believe he." I being Layne if its a layne quote durrrrrrrrrr.....so who da fuck is the he?! where did this quote come from? Secondly it doesnt matter no offense to layne but he isnt the BE all END all when it comes to lifitng the body and science. He is a good source...but at the same time he pretty much said one things then said another in that nice lil quote of yours. The whole tension thing is fuggin obvious..Maybe you didn score quite as high as sway on dat dare act......


LULZ!!! The whole board telling me to stfu?!? Dude you had Dwight and MOE and well no offense love those guys no homo...they def are swangin from your nut tree WAAAAY TO HARD.... to the point NO HOMO cant even save them...Soooo not sure why your all proud ya got two dudes slobing on ya nuts...Swayz has bitchs slobbing on HIS nuts... YOU JELLY????


Secondly LULZ! didn you leave like a lil BETA PHAGGOT????? I mean isnt running away the most BETA thing one can possibly do. You have forever established your self as my Beta bitch because of that...and you will never be anything but....sorry brah but atleast you get the Alphas scraps...No pussy tho I dont want phaggoty genes getting spread....we only need a few Betas in this world.
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dwatson private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by eknight
The quote is FROM LAYNE. I get that reading comprehension is not your strong point, and if something doesn't have pictures attached you don't really understand it, so I will try to dumb it down as much as I can:

1. You're wrong.
2. For reference on how much YOU'RE needed, review here: http://forum.simplyshredded.com/topic/2691/page/1/swayzs-carbsugariifym-rant-gtfih/

How'd it feel when the entire board basically told you to STFU? Remember that shit when your head gets big around here. -EK



Haha that was a definite....


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Swayz87 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by dwatson
Quote:
Originally Posted by eknight
The quote is FROM LAYNE. I get that reading comprehension is not your strong point, and if something doesn't have pictures attached you don't really understand it, so I will try to dumb it down as much as I can:

1. You're wrong.
2. For reference on how much YOU'RE needed, review here: http://forum.simplyshredded.com/topic/2691/page/1/swayzs-carbsugariifym-rant-gtfih/

How'd it feel when the entire board basically told you to STFU? Remember that shit when your head gets big around here. -EK



Haha that was a definite....







Actually I got the most reps of any thread I've ever done...soooooooo PROFIT
Post 29 IP   flag post
c3pOMG private msg quote post Address this user
no need to apologize ek.
i can appreciate a good debate. but i have seen you two have this same battle almost anytime someone has a question about benching and i didnt want to be the one responsible for starting another fire around here.

maybe you can answer this for me.
on chest day i flat bench 3 sets, incline 3 sets, and dip 3 sets.
as long as my form is correct, i control the weight, work the muscle and not the weight, increase the weight every other week or so, and eat like a mule, i should be fine with just those 3 exercises right? that should be enough to fill out my chest evenly?
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