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SCULPTURING AND SPLITS.18480

A7102009 private msg quote post Address this user
Hey, I've recently submitted a thread about my splits, about whether I should do a push pull leg split, vs one of my splits, I chose the push pull leg split, and I have already been doing it for about 2-3 weeks before I submitted the post and I'd like to say thank you for your help its helped me greatly. I've also begun my bulk, now I am 76 kg at 14% bodyfat, I hate being this fat, but what can I do...

I've read everywhere that a 3 day split is best especially for my age (16) however, ever since I started doing it, I've gotten bigger, BUT I have been getting disproportions like mad, I'm happy the way my chest and back have grown, my shoulders have grown a little too big to, however, I never seam to have enough time at the end of my push or pull days, to fully do my arms. And they have become a huge problem, they are still bigger than I remember them, but my chest back and shoulders, have lapped my arms 3 times over, you can't notice it when I bend my arms, however the problem is that I have very long arms, and so I was thinking that maybe I should change the split somehow to give arms more of a priority, I won't be giving arms a full day though, as I don't believe in Isolation. But I am just unsure about doing this new split as the rest of my body is just growing so nicely with the push/pull/legs split, I already spend 1 and a halve hours a day to 2 hours, and my arms are just to weak after I've finished the rest.

BEFORE I GO ON ABOUT NEW SPLITS.
I want to ask if anyone on a push pull split has the same problems as me, (smaller arms) and lots of disproportions is it normal when trying to gain mass? And does it go away?

Current split:
Push
Pull
Legs
Rest
(I added a rest as I got bigger from this split yes, but my strength was not going to quickly up, the extra rest day helped a lot.

New Split:
Chest/Biceps/Traps
Legs
Shoulders/Triceps
Back/Rear Delts
Rest
So as you can see I've added arms to bodyparts which don't necessarily use them, as I read that bodyparts such as chest use biceps as stabilizers, and same goes with back and triceps, I thought this would be helpful for some of you people out there who have been asking questions about sore triceps on pull days and so on, however I never felt so sore on them on these days so it may be technique, (I'm no professional so you may want to ask someone else).
However going on, I added traps to chest as you are retracting the scapular, same goes with shoulders.
Rear Delts have bothered me so much recently, as they have been left behind, and I am a very proud of my back development, but that may be because I put the most amount of volume on them, and spend at least an hour to an hour and 20 minuets, which is defiantly the reason for my lagging biceps and rear delts (I do rear delts on this day as doing them the day before destroyed my lifts for pull day).
I know I may put to much volume on them and everything, however I do drop sets, which allows me to go on for longer, However I stay in the reps ranges from 6/7-12.

I've heard people everywhere telling me it doesn't matter how long your workout takes, just go until your finished, I've tried that, but they are so weak, and I hate going light on them, yet I still did it, however no results by doing that so far, I am most defiantly made more off fast twitch fibers than slow twitch, as a power style of training always gave me mass opposed to everyone else going 3 seconds up 4 seconds down, I tried that too, but I don't sweat there is no pain and I never got any growth from it, so each time one of these people tell me how to do something I've ended up getting smaller, which is something that I hope you understand, and may be able to try out yourself to see if it is better for you, I still control the weight, I just don't go lightweight (actual light weight not Ronny) as slow as possible with so many reps.

Then I found another routine which I altered slightly for more frequency, however it is set out how I personally would like to train my muscle groups together, (however not the way its grouped)
it goes:
Back
Chest/Shoulders
Legs
Arms
Rest
Only concern is that biceps are used after only one day of rest, and people such as Chris Jones have been experiencing muscle loss because off arm day only getting one day rest before hitting chest.
And I have never tried back before chest and and am unsure if it is such a good idea, as Push pull Legs is designed to put the muscles that use the other muscle groups in front, no behind.

I was wondering also if anyone knew if training arms together is better than training them separately, as everywhere that I have looked it ended up saying I train them alone biceps one day triceps another, and I won't be doing that as it would screw with my frequency. I would be grateful if anyone could answer this for me thanks.

Then I also wanted to ask if Cardio is necessary for growth, as I read that it promoted blood flow to your muscles?

I know I am bombarding this Thread with questions, just I could not find any threads explaining this.

I would prefer a 4 day split I must admit, even though I am more concerned for gains, but I am the biggest that I have ever been so far, but not the strongest, or best sculptured which I had better results on a five day split, so I was hoping that a 4 days split would put them both into balance.

Thanks for reading all this, hopefully I can settle this once for all.
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Jsn3004 private msg quote post Address this user
I would just give The Routine Design for Dummies and The FAQ a read. It seems like you're overthinking this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eknight
All body parts twice weekly. For natural athletes, we want to take advantage of muscle protein synthesis rates, which remain elevated 48-72 hours post-workout. Training everything around twice weekly is optimal.


With that being said, it appears that both of your self made splits would not give you near optimal results.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexander7
Chest/Biceps/Traps
Legs
Shoulders/Triceps
Back/Rear Delts
Rest


Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexander7
Back
Chest/Shoulders
Legs
Arms
Rest



And you were having good results on your 5 day split because you still had those newbie gains. Anyone will be making fast progress when they begin as long as they are consistent, even if they are running a suboptimal routine.

Don't go consistently changing up your routines. You won't be able to track your lifts nearly as well and see how you are progressing. I'd stick with PPL but if you want to go to the gym less days you can do an Upper/Lower split or full body.
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A7102009 private msg quote post Address this user
I've just went through all of my journals, and even my newbie gains haven't been as good as PPL, I probably am overthinking this a lot, but I have recently read Mark Wahlberg workout routine for the movie pain and gain, I know he's 1000% not natty, as he gained over 20 kg in 7 weeks, but it made a lot of sense, its the P/P/L split but in a different order, he did: Pull/Push/Legs, the only downside would be that Push day will be a lot harder since you also use your back on Bench press and Pullovers, and Flyes, but would this not be a benefit as I would be using more of my chest than my back to get the weight up, also I thought since I did back the day before, I can now do rear delts as well on Push day, as I don't like separating shoulders, because I like putting most of my attention on back and biceps.
Would this be a good idea, I should probably mention my back is the only bodypart that matches with my shoulders, so I would like a bigger chest, and since triceps make up most of my arms, they would be important too. and I don't really want to turn out looking like Quasimodo, would this be a better version?
I would prefer to go to the gym as many days as possible, and that is why I tend to go away from full body splits, or upper lower, as it is also too much for one workout for me.

Do you also know if I made a mistake adding an extra rest day, as I hate waiting for them to just happen, but my lifts were getting a lot weaker than I usually did them. Then again I read that the body would eventually adapt if I did it long ago.
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Jsn3004 private msg quote post Address this user
Yeah you're seriously overthinking this now. Just stick with PPL.

But that's fine if you're able to or want to go to the gym 6 days a week but why would you want to go as many days as possible. Progress is due to smart training, diet, sleep, etc., not how many days you're there. If you can follow a routine that is just as efficient, and possibly more optimal, why wouldn't you want to be in the gym less days throughout the week?
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TedDansen private msg quote post Address this user
Agreed, too much thinking. Your gains are inversely proportional to the amount of time you spend on the internet. That's just science.

I don't know anything about you, so feel free to tell me to fuck off, but judging by your questions you probably need to gain 50 lbs before you start worrying about weak points. All of those programs you posted are fine. They have their own positives and negatives but they all work. Just pick one that has you hitting compound lifts heavy twice a week. If you feel you need to bring something up, put it first or do an extra set or two for it.
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A7102009 private msg quote post Address this user
Thanks yet again for all the help, but I have found my 1 problem, and that is that I workout too long, so I wanted to ask, this applies only to push day, that if I train chest for about 45 minuets in the morning and then shoulders and triceps about 6-8 hours later in the evening, would this work?
I just wonder if it would be counter productive or not, and I am already dead 24 hours a day from my one workout, so I don't know what it would do to me if I were to add 2 a day workouts for push. It would mean a lot to me if anyone could answer me this one last question thanks.
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The Dark
Knight
eknight private msg quote post Address this user
Why do you feel the need to train chest for 45 mins? -3X
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A7102009 private msg quote post Address this user
Because I always do a lot of exercises with 3-5 sets each so it takes a long time. 23+ sets, I only rest 0,50-1.10 minuets between sets so it is not because of rest time, before someone starts telling me that I need to do less sets, I want you to know that I tried the 15 sets for large bodyparts, and it worked for a week but then stopped and did not work as well for me as when I did more and when I did do it which was several months ago now, I was super setting chest and back, but ever since I seperated them they have grown quite a lot more, and I am also going as hard and as heavy as I can to failure on all of my sets, I am also pyramiding my sets, so I can lift as much as possible throughout my entire workout, until I get to my triceps or biceps at the end, but they are already hit, and are still growing well.
But would it be possible for me to train twice a day or should I stick to one, because I am doing PUSH tomorrow and I really don't know what I should do, thanks.
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Hamb0 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexander723+ sets, I only rest 0,50-1.10 minuets between sets so it is not because of rest time, before someone starts telling me that I need to do less sets, I want you to know that I tried the 15 sets for large bodyparts, and it worked for a week but then stopped and did not work as well for me as when I did more and when I did do it which was several months ago now, I was super setting chest and back, but ever since I seperated them they have grown quite a lot more, and I am also going as hard and as heavy as I can to failure on all of my sets, I am also pyramiding my sets, so I can lift as much as possible throughout my entire workout, until I get to my triceps or biceps at the end, but they are already hit, and are still growing well.[/quote


Holy shit dude

Punctuation - that was literally unreadable
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A7102009 private msg quote post Address this user
Sorry man English not my best language.
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The Dark
Knight
eknight private msg quote post Address this user
Calling bullshit on it working for a week only. There's no possible way to tell if something is working or not in such a short time. You'd need 6 weeks minimum. -3X
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A7102009 private msg quote post Address this user
I suppose so, but on these workouts that I did, I was fine the whole way, I was pushing each set as hard as I could do, but I was fine right to the end, yes I was tired, but I was constantly anxious thinking, I know I could of done more and I know I could of trained harder. And when I see all of my idols training, they are training with insane volume, and I believe chris jones is natural because whatever he said I tried, and it worked.
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The Dark
Knight
eknight private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexander7
but I was constantly anxious


And herein lies the problem. You're thinking too much. It's nonsense to do that many sets for chest. More isn't better. That kind of volume isn't going to equate to more growth. Once muscle protein synthesis is peaked, doing more volume can't peak it further. It's like pouring water into a bucket that's already full- you can't make it more full. -3X
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A7102009 private msg quote post Address this user
I have been doing it this way since I started, and my back which, I always trained with the most amount of volume, grew the most, which is a slight problem now, but I love the way that it turned out, and I have not met anyone yet in person who could lift more than me, so I always thought that this was the way to go. But I will try it for 6 weeks again to see if it would be the better way to go.
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TedDansen private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexander7
I only rest 0,50-1.10 minuets between sets

I see this as a problem. I'd rather see you add a minute of rest so you're stronger for each set, and you can get more out of the sets you do. Then you can subtract some volume on the back end and feel good about it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexander7
But would it be possible for me to train twice a day or should I stick to one, because I am doing PUSH tomorrow and I really don't know what I should do, thanks.

Ideally you would get at least 48 hours of rest between pushing workouts. I think your strength is really going to suffer trying to train tris that soon after chest. I appreciate the enthusiasm, but you have to understand that it's going to take years to put on significant amounts of muscle. Doing extra work doesn't speed it up, and might hurt you in the long run.
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