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BB and PL getting way too technical?16962

SOLARSUPLEX private msg quote post Address this user
I want to start by saying this is not my work, i just saw it and thought you guys would enjoy the discussion. SOURCE


Quote:
Originally Posted by self
-The general idea that you need to eat nothing but brown rice and dry boneless skinless chicken beast or else you'll look like Jason Blaha is thankfully fading away, but it persisted for a long time.

-Overtraining. You're not going to "overtrain" just because you did 3 extra sets of bicep curls, or lift more than 4x a week, but when I first got into lifting, I would hear things like that all the time. It takes A LOT more than what is generally suggested in order to reach a state of overtraining. The body is adaptive.

-Muscle loss when cutting. Muscle loss when cutting is minimal. Why? Let's take a look at the following:
http://fitnessblackbook.com/main/starvation-mode-why-you-probably-never-need-to-worry-about-it/
Summary: Soldiers were put on an intense calorie and sleep deprivation regimen and didn't even lose LBM until they hit 5-6% bf.
People think they lose muscle when cutting, but really it's a combination of losing fullness from fat, water, and glycogen, and simply underestimating their BF% to begin with. Lol at bloated, watery permabulkers who think they lost muscle by going from 18% to 15%.

-The amount of protein you need to build or maintain muscle.
The article I always cite for this topic: http://bayesianbodybuilding.com/the-myth-of-1glb-optimal-protein-intake-for-bodybuilders/
There is normally no advantage to consuming more than 0.82g/lb (1.8g/kg) of protein per day to preserve or build muscle. This already includes a very safe mark-up. There hasn’t been any recorded advantage of consuming more than 0.64g/lb.
You can eat more protein if you want or prefer, it just isn't necessary. I would quote more of that article, but I don't want this OP to be too long. The high protein myth is why we have the epidemic of protein farts in college gyms---guys think they need 250 grams of protein at 160 lbs.

-The "anabolic window." Bro, there's a 30 minute, and I'm being generous, anabolic window after your workout, and if you don't take advantage by crushing 100g of protein and some Waxy Maize, I feel bad for you son, be prepared to waste away into nothing."
Not really: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21289204

-The idea that "cardio kills gains." Yeah maybe if you're running a marathon a week.
Of course, the game changes when you're not natural (the protein thing immediately comes to mind.)


Read through the links a bit and listen to the military study. Some of this stuff is common knowledge, however the 'losing muscle' on a cut intrigued me.
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Beans private msg quote post Address this user
The losing muscle thing is definitely a bit of bro science that not a lot of people talk about. Don't get me wrong, you can lose muscle on a cut, but most people ocerexagerate their loss because of reasons listed above.

And lol at the comments. Reddit is so funny. Perfect examples of what he is talking about.

Will read other links later.
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SOLARSUPLEX private msg quote post Address this user
@Beans yeah I honestly didn't know there was such a small amount of muscle loss when cutting. Makes me feel a bit better about being in a deficit for a while.
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_RudeCrew private msg quote post Address this user
On the subject of overtraining, I just think it's a excuse to not put in the work and to take off days when things feel "hard" I went through a 18 week meet prep cycle doing max effort work for bench and either squat or deadlift every week and didn't have 1 deload until the week of the meet and not once did I feel "overtrained". Not saying it isn't possible, just that I think it's way harder to achieve than people think.
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The Dark
Knight
eknight private msg quote post Address this user
^^ I agree. I once did 10 meets in 18 months and didn't suffer from any of the symptoms of over training. Of course, I'm superfuckinghuman, but nevertheless. -3X
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Zyzzst private msg quote post Address this user
Been training for two years straight without breaks and almost doing it 6-7 days a week. Got stronger and never felt like a beta bitch in the gym. As long as you eat and take care of your body it will keep up with the workload. As to the losing muscle thing and boot camp. You definitely lose muscle especially in boot camp or military trainings. Went in at 190 and came out at 165, could bench 285 when going in, could barely get 205 when I came back. That's some bullshit study if you ask me
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Beans private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zyzzst
Been training for two years straight without breaks and almost doing it 6-7 days a week. Got stronger and never felt like a beta bitch in the gym. As long as you eat and take care of your body it will keep up with the workload. As to the losing muscle thing and boot camp. You definitely lose muscle especially in boot camp or military trainings. Went in at 190 and came out at 165, could bench 285 when going in, could barely get 205 when I came back. That's some bullshit study if you ask me


Well, that's kind of what he was talking about. 15 lb of that could have been water and glycogen, and just because you get weaker doesn't mean you lost a lot of muscle. I obviosuly didn't measure your lean body mass before and after, but his point was you probably lost less muscle than you think. I mean, 4 weeks into a reverse diet I look like I've gained 10 lbs. I was just flat and week before.
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Zyzzst private msg quote post Address this user
@Beans nah man, i looked like i came straight out of a concentration camp. Definitely not glycogen and water. My strength loss was definitely due to muscle loss. You cant keep your muscle mass by doing bodyweight exercises and cardio multiple times a day while being sleep deprived and having a lack of nutrients. No possible way. No one will ever be able to convince me of that because i experienced it myself.
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SOLARSUPLEX private msg quote post Address this user
@Zyzzst the key thing is that they kept lifting throughout that.

You mention bodyweight exercise, i agree that there is no way you could maintain a body that had been built with tons of isolation movements with just body weight stuff.

This may be a super bro term but "dont use it you lose it"

Like people that have surgery, they have a cast on their arm and may still be in a surplus but their muscle shrinks a ton because its not being stimulated.

@eknight @_RudeCrew 100% Agree about the overtraining. I have never pushed myself to the amount of meets or shows you guys have, but i feel that you have to be in the gym 3-4 hours of HARD ASS LIFTING for days on end to become overtrained. Although it is different for everybody.
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TimmothyGen private msg quote post Address this user
I run PPL and do 3 on 1 off

But on I get to a real gym ima be there 24/7 trying out all the cool machines.
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