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Critique My First P/P/L Program16835

BlueManBen private msg quote post Address this user
Hey all!

I've never done P/P/L before, but from what I've read it seems pretty awesome!

I've got two options here. I have a 3-day split (Legs, Push, Pull Rest), or a 4-day split (Push, Pull & Legs, Rest)

Ideally, I'd prefer to do the 4-day split because it fits into my schedule really well. But I feel like that makes the Pull/Legs day REALLY long and hard.

What do you think?

Legs, Push, Pull, Rest, Repeat

Legs
Quads
Squat 4x5
Front squat 3x8-12
Leg press 3x8-12
Hamstrings
RDL 3x5
Leg curl 3x8-12
Goodmornings 3x8-12

Push
Chest
Bench 4x5
Incline bench 3x8-12
Shoulders
Seated Shoulder press 3x5
Arnold press 3x8-12
Triceps
Weighted dips 3x8-12
Pushdowns 3x8-12

Pull
Back
DL 4x5
Bent over row 3x8-12
Pull-up 3x8-12
Lat Pulldown 3x8-12
Seated Cable Row 3x8-12
Biceps
Barbell curl 3x8-12
Incline DB Curl 3x8-12


OR

Day 1
Push
Chest
Bench 4x5
Incline bench 3x8-12
Shoulders
Seated Shoulder press 3x5
Arnold press 3x8-12
Triceps
Weighted dips 3x8-12
Pushdowns 3x8-12

Day 2
Pull
Back
DL 4x5
Bent over row 3x8-12
Pull-up 3x8-12
Lat Pulldown 3x8-12
Legs
Front Squat 3x5
Leg press
RDL
Leg curl
Biceps
Barbell curl 3x8-12
Incline DB Curl 3x8-12

Day 3
Push
Chest
Bench 4x5
Incline bench 3x8-12
Shoulders
Seated Shoulder press 3x5
Arnold press 3x8-12
Triceps
Weighted dips 3x8-12
Pushdowns 3x8-12

Day 4
Pull
Legs
Squat 4x5
Leg press
RDL
Leg curl
Back
RDL 4x5
Bent over row 3x8-12
Pull-up 3x8-12
Lat Pulldown 3x8-12
Biceps
Barbell curl 3x8-12
Incline DB Curl 3x8-12
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Beans private msg quote post Address this user
Serious question, what's the point of doing an extra push day? Why don't you just do the normal ppl routine on whatever days fit your schedule?
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The Dark
Knight
eknight private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beans
Serious question, what's the point of doing an extra push day? Why don't you just do the normal ppl routine on whatever days fit your schedule?


This. And both of those routines are a mess. Too much push, not enough pull, not enough hamstring work. -3X
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BlueManBen private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beans
Serious question, what's the point of doing an extra push day? Why don't you just do the normal ppl routine on whatever days fit your schedule?


What do you mean by extra push day? The way I see it it's either Legs, Push, Pull, repeat, or Push, Pull/Legs, repeat. I'm not sure which one of those is extra.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eknight
This. And both of those routines are a mess. Too much push, not enough pull, not enough hamstring work. -3X


How much Push should I take out? I already have more pulling exercises than pushing exercises so I don't quite know what I need to do to get that ratio right. How much more hamstring work do you think I need?
Post 4 IP   flag post
The Dark
Knight
eknight private msg quote post Address this user
Have you read this?

http://forum.simplyshredded.com/topic/16702/page/1/routine-design-for-dummies-10/

-3X
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Beans private msg quote post Address this user
@BlueManBen ok, I misread your second option. I would personally not do legs on the same day as pull other than deads. Your legs, back and bis are practically 3/4 of your body, and chest ,tris and delts are way smaller. Why cram them into the same day?

I would still just do ppl days on whichever days fit your schedule.
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Beans private msg quote post Address this user
Just to be clear, if you can only make it into the gym 2 days in a row, it would go push/pull/rest/legs/push/rest/pull/legs/rest etc.

Worst case is having to do deads the day before squats, but you could mess around with sets and rep schemes to make it doable. Or just do deads on leg day.
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Rawsteel private msg quote post Address this user
As said, they're a mess, also, training back with legs is something i do not recommend.
And how would you run it, how many days a week?
Here's an example of a simple and balanced PPL with nonlinear periodization that you can run 6 or 5 days a week with a volume that most people can recover from.

D1 - Pull
D2 - Push
D3 - Legs
D4
D5 - Pull B
D6 - Push B
D7 - Legs B
D8

Or

D1 - Pull
D2 - Push B
D3
D4 - Legs
D5 - Pull B
D6
D7 - Push
D8 - Legs B
D9

Pull
Pull-ups: 3x6-8
Row, preferably chest supported: 3x8-10
A unilateral row, like db row: 2x10-12
Shrugs: 3x8-10
Preacher curl: 3x6-8
Reverse preacher curl or hammer curl: 2x10-12

Pull B
Pull-ups: 3x5
Row, preferably chest supported: 3x8-10
A unilateral row, like db row: 2x10-12
Shrugs: 3x8-10
Preacher curl: 3x6-8
Reverse preacher curl or hammer curl: 2x10-12

Optional: rear delt flyes: 3x10-12
_______________________________________

Push
Bench: 3x6-8 + Pause (1s): 1x8 (-20-25%, should have ~2 reps left in the tank)
Incline db press: 3x8-10
Seated lateral raise: 3x8-10 + cable: 2x13-15
Lying tricepsextension (full shoulder flexion/behind head): 3x6-8
Unilateral pushdown: 2x10-12
+ rotator cuffs: 2-3x12 internal and external cable rotation

Push B
Bench: 3x5 + Pause (1s): 1x8 (-20-25%, should have ~2 reps left in the tank)
Seated shoulder press: 3x6-8
Cable flyes: 3x8-10
Seated lateral raise: 3x10-12
Lying tricepsextension (full shoulder flexion/behind head): 3x6-8
Unilateral pushdown: 2x10-12
+ rotator cuffs: 2-3x12 internal and external cable rotation
_______________________________________

Legs
Squat: 3x6-8 + Pause (1s): 1x8 (-20-25%, should have ~2 reps left in the tank)
Unilateral exercise, bulgarian split squats or unilateral leg press: 3x8-10
Romanian deadlift: 3x6-8
Seated unilateral leg curl: 3x10-12
Calf press in leg press: 3x6-8 + 2x13-15

Legs B
Squat: 3x5 + Pause (1s): 1x8 (-20-25%, should have ~2 reps left in the tank)
Unilateral exercise, bulgarian split squats or unilateral leg press: 3x8-10
Nordic hamstring (band assisted if needed): 4x5
Unilateral hypers: 3x10-12
Calf press in leg press: 3x6-8 + 2x13-15

Abs
Plank, body saws or ab wheel: 3xMax
Crunches on ball: 3x6-8 + 2x13-15

If normal DL's is a must then i suggest doing 1 lower workout where you focus on squat and one where you focus on DL, like in Johnny Canditos upper/lower program (google it).
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BlueManBen private msg quote post Address this user
@Beans Yeah I was worried putting Legs with Pulls would be too much volume. I think I was just trying too hard to make a 4-day split work for me. Thanks for the tips on the split.

@Rawsteel Wow this is awesome! I'm leaning towards the 6 day option. That seems like the best way to hit everything twice in a week.

To make sure I've got this right; For Bench and Squat, do you mean taking 20-25% of the weight off and adding a 1s pause at the bottom of each rep for that last 1x8 set?

Definitely learned my lesson on how much volume I actually need.

Thanks guys!
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Rawsteel private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueManBen

To make sure I've got this right; For Bench and Squat, do you mean taking 20-25% of the weight off and adding a 1s pause at the bottom of each rep for that last 1x8 set?


That's right, and for the main sets (3x5/3x6-8) i recommend that you use a weight that allows you to hit the reps in the first 2 sets with the same weight, up it when you can hit 5/8 in all 3 sets or when you can do 5, 5, 6 and 8, 8, 9.
How many percent you need to lower the weight in the pause set will requie some experimentation, for me -20% in the bench allows me to complete 8 pause reps with about 2 reps left in the tank, and when i could squat it was -25%.
But if you want to keep it simple and feel that you can recover from it you could simply decrease the weight by 20% and do 1xAMQRAP (as many quality reps as possible).

PS, below is how a band assisted nordic hamstring look like if you're curious, the goal should however be to do them without bands and the support of your hands.
And here's a good article about the exercise.

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