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8x4 vs 4x8 for mass gains16671

csizemore21 private msg quote post Address this user
What do you guys think would be better for a main movement? With 8x4 i can push more weight and still hit the same volume.
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nine0seven private msg quote post Address this user
Hypertrophy is best achieved in the 5-10 rep range. If you can get 10, add more weight. Don't make shit complicated
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SOLARSUPLEX private msg quote post Address this user
I think 4x8.

8x4 seems like you would need a lot of weight to benefit from the 'working hard on all sets' and doing 8 of those would be a workout entirely by itself.
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csizemore21 private msg quote post Address this user
I mean logically if I can Incline press 225 to 230 for 4x8 wouldnt the exact same rest and total reps with 8x4 at 275 be higher volume and more tension?
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The Dark
Knight
eknight private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by nine0seven
Hypertrophy is best achieved in the 5-10 rep range.


This has recently been demonstrated to be false.

OP- if volume is equal, one will likely not give substantial results over the other- if any. Personal preference. -3X
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csizemore21 private msg quote post Address this user
@eknight I know you've got some research, drop something in for me to read (:
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The Dark
Knight
eknight private msg quote post Address this user
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/24714538/

Effects of different volume-equated resistance training loading strategies on muscular adaptations in well-trained men.
Schoenfeld BJ, et al. J Strength Cond Res. 2014.
Abstract
Regimented resistance training has been shown to promote marked increases in skeletal muscle mass. Although muscle hypertrophy can be attained through a wide range of resistance training programs, the principle of specificity, which states that adaptations are specific to the nature of the applied stimulus, dictates that some programs will promote greater hypertrophy than others. Research is lacking, however, as to the best combination of variables required to maximize hypertophic gains. The purpose of this study was to investigate muscular adaptations to a volume-equated bodybuilding-type training program vs. a powerlifting-type routine in well-trained subjects. Seventeen young men were randomly assigned to either a hypertrophy-type resistance training group that performed 3 sets of 10 repetition maximum (RM) with 90 seconds rest or a strength-type resistance training (ST) group that performed 7 sets of 3RM with a 3-minute rest interval. After 8 weeks, no significant differences were noted in muscle thickness of the biceps brachii. Significant strength differences were found in favor of ST for the 1RM bench press, and a trend was found for greater increases in the 1RM squat. In conclusion, this study showed that both bodybuilding- and powerlifting-type training promote similar increases in muscular size, but powerlifting-type training is superior for enhancing maximal strength.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed...714538/related


Muscular adaptations in response to three different resistance-training regimens: specificity of repetition maximum training zones.
Campos GE, et al. Eur J Appl Physiol. 2002.

Abstract
Thirty-two untrained men [mean (SD) age 22.5 (5.8) years, height 178.3 (7.2) cm, body mass 77.8 (11.9) kg] participated in an 8-week progressive resistance-training program to investigate the "strength-endurance continuum". Subjects were divided into four groups: a low repetition group (Low Rep, n = 9) performing 3-5 repetitions maximum (RM) for four sets of each exercise with 3 min rest between sets and exercises, an intermediate repetition group (Int Rep, n = 11) performing 9-11 RM for three sets with 2 min rest, a high repetition group (High Rep, n = 7) performing 20-28 RM for two sets with 1 min rest, and a non-exercising control group (Con, n = 5). Three exercises (leg press, squat, and knee extension) were performed 2 days/week for the first 4 weeks and 3 days/week for the final 4 weeks. Maximal strength [one repetition maximum, 1RM), local muscular endurance (maximal number of repetitions performed with 60% of 1RM), and various cardiorespiratory parameters (e.g., maximum oxygen consumption, pulmonary ventilation, maximal aerobic power, time to exhaustion) were assessed at the beginning and end of the study. In addition, pre- and post-training muscle biopsy samples were analyzed for fiber-type composition, cross-sectional area, myosin heavy chain (MHC) content, and capillarization. Maximal strength improved significantly more for the Low Rep group compared to the other training groups, and the maximal number of repetitions at 60% 1RM improved the most for the High Rep group. In addition, maximal aerobic power and time to exhaustion significantly increased at the end of the study for only the High Rep group. All three major fiber types (types I, IIA, and IIB) hypertrophied for the Low Rep and Int Rep groups, whereas no significant increases were demonstrated for either the High Rep or Con groups. However, the percentage of type IIB fibers decreased, with a concomitant increase in IIAB fibers for all three resistance-trained groups. These fiber-type conversions were supported by a significant decrease in MHCIIb accompanied by a significant increase in MHCIIa. No significant changes in fiber-type composition were found in the control samples. Although all three training regimens resulted in similar fiber-type transformations (IIB to IIA), the low to intermediate repetition resistance-training programs induced a greater hypertrophic effect compared to the high repetition regimen. The High Rep group, however, appeared better adapted for submaximal, prolonged contractions, with significant increases after training in aerobic power and time to exhaustion. Thus, low and intermediate RM training appears to induce similar muscular adaptations, at least after short-term training in previously untrained subjects. Overall, however, these data demonstrate that both physical performance and the associated physiological adaptations are linked to the intensity and number of repetitions performed, and thus lend support to the "strength-endurance continuum".

-3X
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csizemore21 private msg quote post Address this user
Very interesting, I think I am gonna experiment with 8x3 or 4 for a bit.
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SOLARSUPLEX private msg quote post Address this user
@csizemore21 what does your rest time look like during these sets?
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nine0seven private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by eknight
Quote:
Originally Posted by nine0seven
Hypertrophy is best achieved in the 5-10 rep range.


This has recently been demonstrated to be false.

OP- if volume is equal, one will likely not give substantial results over the other- if any. Personal preference. -3X

Ah, got me. So would 4-6 reps be optimal for compounds? What about accessory?
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csizemore21 private msg quote post Address this user
@SOLARSUPLEX pretty much the same until I feeo like I need more, I usually play rest by ear. I recover fairly quickly
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LVjack private msg quote post Address this user
I would say 8x4 with a focus on strength/moving the weight in an explosive manner and then add in the higher rep sets on your assesory lifts.

PS: I almost always train my main compound lifts in the lower rep range 2-5 and then 8-12 on everything else. Works for me. Give it a try.
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THE GODFATHER wannabemuscular private msg quote post Address this user
@csizemore21 What's up with your log dude? Not sure if you're even lifting anymore.
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csizemore21 private msg quote post Address this user
@LVjack Thats exactly how I did yesterdays workout, kinda like powerbuilding. It was nice
@wannabemuscular between the baby on the way and 2 jobs I do not have much time to log anymore or really think about it tbh
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