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Push vs Pull.. how do you do 1:2?16595

qtdreams92 private msg quote post Address this user
I read somewhere on here that pull MUST be x2 of push in your routine. Well how do you work this out? Is it by number of reps total, the weights, or combo of both? And do you count leg exercises like squats or lunges. I am bit lost with how to make this 1:2. or if it is something I even should be worried about?
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The Dark
Knight
eknight private msg quote post Address this user
Total PULL volume should be twice PUSH for glenohumeral movements. For legs, the ratio is more like 1:1 (or 3:2) hamstrings to quads. Hamstrings work should not be limited to only deadlifts or hip extension movements, since the primary role of the hamstrings is knee flexion. -3X
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SOLARSUPLEX private msg quote post Address this user
Pull day should have twice as much volume as push day.

Leg day is a day all on its own, but you try to hit hammys with twice as much volume as quads.

I'm not sure how calfs play into the equation. But just toss some donkey calf raises and seated raises on the end and call it a day.
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WinnersNeverQuit private msg quote post Address this user
@SOLARSUPLEX fairly sure it's 1:1 hammy:quad ratio
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qtdreams92 private msg quote post Address this user
thanks much @eknight @SOLARSUPLEX. So volume is the number of reps. But if my pull weight amount is heavier than the push weight amount does it make a difference to the ratio?

I am ok with the ham:quad ratio of 1, Leg curls galore lol.
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The Dark
Knight
eknight private msg quote post Address this user
You would be the first person I've ever met who is training with maximum effort and who rows heavier than she benches. What kind of numbers are we talking about here?

Either way, for the general healthy population, I'd still advise that ratio. -3X
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qtdreams92 private msg quote post Address this user
In my old PPL program I didnt have bench because I hated it. so the only pushing was for overhead press. pulling had rows and deadlift. I don't have my training file atm but I'm sure my overhead press was the lightest?
However this week I am including bench press in the program.
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The Dark
Knight
eknight private msg quote post Address this user
Deads don't count in this discussion because the primary active movement is through the hips and knees, not the scapula. Re. the OHP/bench press, yes your OHP is likely lighter than your rows, but overhead pressing is not directly antagonistic to rowing the way bench pressing is. -3X
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qtdreams92 private msg quote post Address this user
So I have to match similar pulling and pushing exercises together now? like bench vs rows, curls vs kickbacks. well its not as simple as 1:2 push pull after all!
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The Dark
Knight
eknight private msg quote post Address this user
Yes it is. You're making things too complicated again. I never said match movements- I simply pointed out that in terms of strength, that ratio is based on a direct antagonist relationship. -3X
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qtdreams92 private msg quote post Address this user
lol ok.. in summary I just aim for 1:2 with reps, right?

this means I'll add an extra warmup set with pulling which will up the ratio nicely.
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The Dark
Knight
eknight private msg quote post Address this user
Why would you add warm-up sets? Real sets, with real weight! An average week for me re. shoulder complex training looks like this:

Only posting what I do for push:pull on an "average" week:


Monday (deadlift day):
post workout, 100 band pull-aparts

Tuesday (bench day):
bench press: 4-8 sets, 6-12 reps
Close-grip bench press: 2-3 sets, 6-12 reps
Band bench press: 3 sets, 15-20 reps
Wide-grip lat pull downs: 4 sets (6-15 reps)
Close grip lat pulldown: 4 sets (6-15 reps)
Band pull-aparts: 100 reps

Wednesday:
no weights, 100 band pull-aparts

Thursday (Squat day):
Cable mid trap raise: 3 sets 8-12 reps

Friday (weak point day):
Cable pulldowns: 3 sets of 15
Wide grip lat pulls: 3 sets, 10-15 reps
Pec deck: 2 sets of 15
OHP: 4 sets of 10-12
Prone DB trap raise OR shrugs: 3 sets of 12
Biceps: 2-4 sets, 10-15 reps
Triceps: 4 sets, 10-15 reps
Band pull aparts: 100 reps

My rough math gives me a total of ~565 reps of pull and ~270 reps of push. -3X
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THE GODFATHER wannabemuscular private msg quote post Address this user
@eknight You count the pullaparts? I always wondered if they were really substantial enough.
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The Dark
Knight
eknight private msg quote post Address this user
I do. If you use a thick enough band, they're a grea movement. -3X
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