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cbondy private msg quote post Address this user
Basically what do people think is better

training a body part once a week hitting it hard
eg M-Legs T-Chest W-Back T-Shoulders F-Arms with the two days off in there wherever.

or combining
eg M-Legs T-Chest&Arms W-Back&Shoulders and being able to hit them twice a week

everyones 2cents appreciated
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Hamer93 private msg quote post Address this user
2x a week if your natural

End thread
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cbondy private msg quote post Address this user
yer I'm natural.
i thought that was better as a week would be too much recovery time. but some people seem to get good results training a body part once a week even as a natty.

why does your answer call for and end to the thread?
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the1 private msg quote post Address this user
M- Chest, Shoulders
T- Legs
W- Back, Biceps
T- Shoulders, Triceps
F- Arms
S- Legs
S- OFF

or

M- Chest, Shoulders
T- Legs, Arms
W- OFF
T- Back, Traps
F- Shoulders, Arms
S- OFF
S- Back

are splits i like better then yours
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The Dark
Knight
eknight private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by cbondy
yer I'm natural.
i thought that was better as a week would be too much recovery time. but some people seem to get good results training a body part once a week even as a natty.

why does your answer call for and end to the thread?


Because there's been a substantial amount of research showing that, for naturals, training body parts once every 72 hours is optimal, due to length of time muscle protein synthesis is elevated, CNS recovery, amount of tissue damage and how long it takes to repair, and training adaptations at the cellular level. -3X
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cbondy private msg quote post Address this user
thanks @eknight for a decent answer not some cocky bs.
also @the1 thanks for your info guessing from your pics your not natty i may be wrong so not sure how relevant it would be for me
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The Dark
Knight
eknight private msg quote post Address this user
I don't think @Hamer93 was being cocky. To be fair, this particular topic has been covered here a few times. -3X
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cbondy private msg quote post Address this user
there was no explanation to his answer.
and iv not been a member of this site as long as a lot of people but people have gone from giving helpful answers every time to cocky bs to newbies because they aren't experienced.
anyway thats my rant.

breaking up the muscle groups is it what works best for you i.e. if you enjoy PPL or want to split it up differently
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the1 private msg quote post Address this user
lol regardless if i am natty or not.. the splits above are 2x muscle groups per week
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cbondy private msg quote post Address this user
@the1 that true my bad.
why do you split it that way? as opposed to chest/arms back/shoulders legs?
in your second split some stuff is only worked once a week?
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Rawsteel private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by cbondy
Basically what do people think is better

training a body part once a week hitting it hard
eg M-Legs T-Chest W-Back T-Shoulders F-Arms with the two days off in there wherever.

or combining
eg M-Legs T-Chest&Arms W-Back&Shoulders and being able to hit them twice a week

everyones 2cents appreciated


As said, twice a week, your split is however not very well thought through because with it you're hitting your triceps, shoulders and biceps two days in a row (4 times a week).
This is like asking for injuries, most likely in elbows/shoulders.
Your anterior deltoids gets recruited alot in chest presses, emg studies has actually shown that incline chest presses recruits the anterior deltoids to a similar degree as vertical ones (ohp).
If you are going to run a 3 split 2 times a week then run a pure pull/push/legs, i personally think that lifting weights 6 days a week is a bit overkill for most naturals and you're probably better off doing an upper lower (4 workouts a week) or a pull/push/legs with 5 workouts a week.
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cbondy private msg quote post Address this user
@Rawsteel i can agree with you on that because i feel my ant. deltoid working a lot.
i find if i try to train 6 days it kills me compared to 5 so agree with you on that to.
can you or @eknight recommend a good PPL routine then?
and when lifting do you go for shifting the weight of focus on the contraction?
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LVjack private msg quote post Address this user
Train every muscle group twice a week. I also do some unconventional training bc I want to look like someone from the movie 300.
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Rawsteel private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by cbondy
@Rawsteel i can agree with you on that because i feel my ant. deltoid working a lot.
i find if i try to train 6 days it kills me compared to 5 so agree with you on that to.
can you or @eknight recommend a good PPL routine then?
and when lifting do you go for shifting the weight of focus on the contraction?


The ones that i've run the last 3 years have looked pretty much like the one below.
It can be done either as a 3 on, 1 off, 2 on, 1 off, repeat or 2 on, 1 off, 2 on.
Also, i recommend that you do it as a pull/legs/push or a pull/push/legs, my shoulders HATED doing push the day before pull and it's not very comfortable training back with sore pecs/shoulders.
And i personally prefer doing two A workouts followed by one B workout, you can alternate each workout if you prefer though.

/3', /2.5' etc is rest between sets.

Pull
Neutral pull-ups: 3x8/2.5'
Chest supported dumbbell row: 3x8/1.5'
Unilateral (1 arm) hammer strength row: 2x10-12/1.5'
Barbell shrugs: 3x8-10/1.5'
Preacher curl: 3x8/1.5'
Incline hammer curl: 2x10-12/1'

Pull B
Neutral pull-ups: 3x5/3'
Chest supported dumbbell row: 3x8/1.5'
Unilateral hammer strength row: 2x10-12/1.5'
Barbell shrugs: 3x8-10/1.5'
Preacher curl: 3x8/1.5'
Incline hammer curl: 2x10-12/1'

Optional
Rear delt cable flyes: 3x10/1'
__________________________________

Push
Bench press: 3x8/2.5' + 1xAMQRAP (-20% of 3x8 weight)/2'
Dumbbell shoulder press: 3x8/1.5'
Cable flyes: 2x10-12/1.5'
Lateral raise: 3x10-12/1.5'
Lying tricepsextension (behind head): 3x8/1.5'
Unilateral pushdown: 2x10-12/1'

Push B
Bench press: 3x5/3' + Pause bench: 1x8 (-20% of 3x5 weight)/2'
Dumbbell shoulder press: 3x8/1.5'
Cable flyes: 3x8-10/1.5'
Lateral raise: 3x10-12/1.5'
Lying tricepsextension (behind head): 3x8/1.5'
Unilateral pushdown: 2x10-12/1'
__________________________________

Legs
Squat: 3x8/2.5' + 1xAMQRAP (-20% of 3x8 weight)/2'
Unilateral leg press or bulgarian split squat: 2x10-12/1.5'
Romanian deadlift: 3x8/2'
Unilateral seated leg curl: 3x10-12/1.5'
Calf press in leg press: 3x8 + 2x13-15/1'

Legs B
Squat: 3x5/3' + Pause squat: 1x8 (-20% of 3x5 weight)/2'
Unilateral leg press or bulgarian split squat: 3x8-10/1.5'
Romanian deadlift: 3x5/2.5'
Unilateral seated leg curl: 3x8-10/1.5'
Some calf exercise: 3x5 + 2x13-15/1'

Abs, do them whenever, not the day before legs though
Captain's chair: 3x6-8/1.5' + 2x10/1'
Ball crunches: 2x10-12/1'
+ some static work, like plank or ab rollout.

This is just an example of how it can look, but if you try it i recommend that you take a deload workout (70% of normal weights) around every 4th week or 3-5 days off (depending on how you feel).
And if you're to weak for pull-ups then i would recommend doing a chest supported row as the first exercise and neutral pulldowns as the second exercise.
And the reason to why i prefer chest supported rows over free ones is because they are the opposite of a bench/chest press and they allow one to focus more on the upper back, the risk of injury is also drastically decreased since the low back is removed from the equation.
And depending on how you run the split some extra rest for the low back after squats and rdl's wont hurt.

PS, AMQRAP stands for "as many quality reps as possible".
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WinnersNeverQuit private msg quote post Address this user
I hit everuthing 2-3 times per week. That said I'm training for power lift get and not size so a lot of what I'm trying to achieve is neural. However, I wouldn't say I was a bad size for a 19 y/o.
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TimmothyGen private msg quote post Address this user
@LVjack you got the facial hair down.
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cbondy private msg quote post Address this user
@Rawsteel thanks man thats real helpful think il give it a try and see how i feel.
how come some of the rest periods are so high like 2.5 or 3 mins?
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Rawsteel private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by cbondy
@Rawsteel thanks man thats real helpful think il give it a try and see how i feel.
how come some of the rest periods are so high like 2.5 or 3 mins?


Because if it's to low one has to use a pretty light weight if one wants to hit the rep goal in atleast the first 2 sets, which i do.
On the 3x8 workouts i want to be able to hit 8/8/~7 using ~73-75% of my 1 RM and to do this i need to rest 2.5 minutes between each set.
And on the strength workouts i want to hit 5/5/~4 with ~83-85% of my 1RM.
When i can do 8/5 reps in all 3 sets with the last rep being 1 rep from failure with good form i'll increase the weight the next workout with the smallest amount possible.
You can however lower it if you want to, how fast one recovers between each set is in my experience pretty individual.
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cbondy private msg quote post Address this user
@Rawsteel i did pull A today quite liked it and got it done quickly. i shortened the rest period to about a minute for most exes just to try an up intensity but focused on form too.
few questions...
BB shrugs in front or behind?
captain chair straight or bent leg? and if i feel it in the front of my thighs more am i doing it wrong?

gonna do Push A tomorrow
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Hamer93 private msg quote post Address this user
Barbell shrugs infront IMO but make sure your scapulars are retracted and depressed and you will get a good connection, might be worth trying it with dumbells instead

The leg raises, when your thighs burn that is your Rectus Femoris, and may mean you arnt using your 'core' muscles and instead are using your hip flexors to raise your legs, might be worth experimenting with other abdominal exercises
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cbondy private msg quote post Address this user
@Hamer93 you can have a like for a sensible reply thank you.

yer i tried to keep retracted and get a good ROM each time. i tried both but when behind i found i got a massive pelvic anterior tilt on and couldn't get past my ass. But in front i could get higher but gotta concentrate on maintaining retraction.

Some reps i felt my core rather than rec fem and hip flexors guess its a new exercise so need to practice my technique.
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Hamer93 private msg quote post Address this user
Deffinately try either hex bar or dumbells for the shrugs, and for the raises it may be that once your abs fatigue your hip flexors kick in?
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Rawsteel private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by cbondy

BB shrugs in front or behind?


In front, if you have a hex bar use that instead, or use dumbbells if you prefer that.
At my gym the heaviest dumbbells are at 55 kg which is to light for me and we don't have a hex bar so i'm forced to do them in front.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cbondy
captain chair straight or bent leg? and if i feel it in the front of my thighs more am i doing it wrong?


That depends completely on your ab strength, having a bend in the knees makes it easier.
Progress is usually bent legs -> straight legs -> straight legs with db between feet.
And yes, you should feel it mainly in your abs, so learn to work with your abs and breath out on the way up.
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cbondy private msg quote post Address this user
no hex bar so guess i will go DB's as my gyms weights allow.

i would say my core isn't great so my hip flexors probably do try and take over. when i do ab work i purposely don't fix my feet to help a bit. il have a play around see if i can get the hang of it.
looking forward to push A though!

Cheers guys
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cbondy private msg quote post Address this user
@Rawsteel why are rep ranges 3x8 and 2x10? why not 4x8?
thanks
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Rawsteel private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by cbondy
@Rawsteel why are rep ranges 3x8 and 2x10? why not 4x8?
thanks


Because the weight one would have to use to manage 4x8 would be to easy, heck, the first two sets would barely be challenging.
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cbondy private msg quote post Address this user
my lower back felt a bit 'worn' after those squats so instead of RDLs i did like a glut ham kick back to give it a rest.

Also improved my technique with abs my aching sure i brace my core better and pull my pelvis to neutral if not slight posterior tilt. seemed to work.
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