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ajm87 private msg quote post Address this user
I'm looking to find or create my next workout routine. I am not allowed to train in a rep range lower than 8 due to my heart condition, nor can I squat or deadlift. I have been lifting for about ten years now. I am trying to find or even make my next workout routine that focuses on hypertrophy, but also achieves progressive overload. I am just having a hard time creating a program with progressive overload in the 8+ rep range. I have been doing variations of Push, Pull, Legs for the last year or more. I would like to continue to do Push, Pull, Legs, but am having trouble progressing due to constantly in the 8+ rep range. Could somebody provide me with a PPL suggestion that I could do with my 8+ rep range and no deadlifts/squats suggestions?
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ajm87 private msg quote post Address this user
For the last week, I have started Westside for Skinny Bastards Version 3. For the MAX effort lower body days, I was thinking about changing it to speed trap bar deadlifts and doing 6 sets of 3 instead of 1 heavy set.

Here's what my layout looks like. Does it seem like enough to put some muscle on my physique? Or if I were to focus on physique, should I be doing a different program? :

MONDAY – Max-Effort Upper Body
TUESDAY – Dynamic-Effort Lower Body
WEDNESDAY – Off/Run
THURSDAY – Repetition Upper Body
FRIDAY – Max-Effort Lower Body
SATURDAY – Off/Run
SUNDAY – Off/Run

*Repetition Upper Body Note: 4 weeks of 3 sets of max reps followed by 2 weeks of 4x12 with moderate weight.

Max Effort Upper Body
A. Flat Dumbbell Bench Press - work up to a max set of 3-5 reps
B. Incline Dumbbell Bench Press - 2 sets of max reps (perform 15-20 on 1st set, use same weight)
C1. Seated Cable Row - 3-4 sets of 8-12 reps
C2. Face Pulls - 3-4 sets of 8-12 reps
D. Barbell Shrugs - 3-4 sets of 8-15 reps
E. Dumbbell Curls - 3-4 sets of 8-15 reps

Dynamic-Effort Lower Body
A. Box Squat - 8 sets of 3 with 60% of estimated 1RM
B. Dumbbell Bulgarian Split-Squat, Front-Foot Elevated - 2-3 sets of 8-10 reps
C. Pull-throughs - 3 sets of 8-12 reps
D. Hanging Leg Raises - 4 sets of 10-15 reps

Repetition Upper Body
A. Incline Dumbbell Bench Press - 3 sets of max reps (12 or more per set)
B1. Lat Pulldowns - 3-4 sets of 8-12 reps
B2. Rear Delt Flyes - 3-4 sets of 8-12 reps
C. Dumbbell Lateral Raises - 4 sets of 8-12 reps
D1. Dumbbell Shrugs - 3 sets of 8-10 reps
D2. Triceps Pushdowns- 3 sets of 10-15 reps

Max Effort Lower Body
A. Trap Bar Deadlifts - work up to a 3-5 rep max
B. Dumbbell Walking Lunges - 3 sets of 6-12 reps
C. Weighted Hyperextensions - 3 sets of 8-12 reps
D. Ground Based Abdominal Circuit - sprinter sit-ups, V-ups, toe touches, hip thrusts. Perform 10-20 reps of each exercise and go through the circuit 2-3 times. Rest 1-2 minutes between circuits.
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Hamer93 private msg quote post Address this user
Surely if your diet is good you should progress in an 8 rep plus range? Especially with push pull legs. If your not progressing the weight/reps and you are eating good I would imagine your volume is too high.

I would do push pull legs or upper lower split. You could even just try 3 full body days.
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Rawsteel private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajm87
I am just having a hard time creating a program with progressive overload in the 8+ rep range.


What's hard about it? Personally i've always been able to reach progressive overload faster/easier with weights under 80% of my max.
Or can't you push yourself because of your heart condition?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ajm87
Could somebody provide me with a PPL suggestion that I could do with my 8+ rep range and no deadlifts/squats suggestions?


I have a herniated disc that has forced me to abandon deadlifts and squats and i run a PPL where i alternate a heavy and a moderate workout.
Below is the program with only the moderate workouts, might be something you find interesting?

• 3 Cycles -> 3-5 Days rest or next workout deload (70% of normal weights) -> Repeat

D1 - Legs
D2 - Pull
D3
D4 - Push + abs
D5 - Legs
D6
D7 - Pull
D8 - Push + abs/light calves
D9

Warm up
Dynamic stretching (google Joe Defranco upper and lower body warm up), rotatorcuffs on pull/push (2x15 band internal/external rotation), maybe some foam rolling and 4 warm up sets in the main exercise (leg press, leg curl, bench and lat pulldown before moving to working sets in pull-ups).
Here's how the warm up sets can look like.

Progression/rest between sets
In the main exercises use a weight that allows you to hit 8 reps in the first 2 sets and when you can do 8 reps with good form and 1 rep shy of failure in the last set simply up the weight with the smallest amount possible the next workout.
In the rep range sets keep it simple and use a weight that allows you to stay whithin the rep range, if you go over in any set then increase the weight in that set the next workout and if you go under lower it, take it easy with concetric failure though, try to stay 1-2 reps shy of it in the majority of these sets.

/2', /1.5' etc behind the reps is the amount of rest between sets in that exercise.
Track it and write down your workouts so you know if you reach progressive overload or not.

Legs
Leg press: 3x8 + 1xAMQRAP (-20%)/2'
Dumbbell bulgarian split squat: 3x8-10/1.5'
Seated leg curl: 3x8/2' + Unilateral: 3x8-10/1.5'
Barbell hip thrust: 2x8/1.5'
Calf press in leg press: 3x6 + 3x10/1'
__________________________

Pull
Neutral pull-ups: 3x8/2'
Lying dumbbell row: 3x8/1.5'
Unilateral hammer row: 2x10-12/1.5'
Barbell shrugs: 3x8-10/1'
Preacher curl: 3x8/1.5'
Incline hammer curl: 2x10-12/1'

D2 (after shrugs)
Rear delt cable flyes: 3x10-12/1'
__________________________

Push
Bench press: 3x8 + 1xAMQRAP (-20%)/2'
Dumbbell shoulder press: 3x8/1.5'
Cable flyes: 2x10-12/1.5'
Cable lateral raise: 3x10-12/1'
Lying tricepsextension (behind head): 3x8/1.5'
Unilateral pushdown: 2x10-12/1'
+ Some rotatorcuff work, like 3x10-15 external rotations.

Abs/calves
Weighted captain's chair: 3x8/1.5'
Ball crunches or captain's chair: 3x10/1'
Calf press in leg press: 3x10 + 2x15/1'

Might want to throw in some static work for the abs as well, like planks or ab rollout.

PS, AMQRAP stands for "as many quality reps as possible".
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qtdreams92 private msg quote post Address this user
Do you think that 'rep range' is a good rule to use for a heart condition? I would have thought heart rate, heart pressure.. in otherwords body measurements would be safer. I am not sure if you use the rpe method when you are training? because that would be helpful too. Its where you get to control the effort and intensity.
Also progress can just mean more than adding weight. you can cut some rest time out, control the weights slowly down, super sets, and so on.
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ajm87 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rawsteel
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajm87
I am just having a hard time creating a program with progressive overload in the 8+ rep range.


What's hard about it? Personally i've always been able to reach progressive overload faster/easier with weights under 80% of my max.
Or can't you push yourself because of your heart condition?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ajm87
Could somebody provide me with a PPL suggestion that I could do with my 8+ rep range and no deadlifts/squats suggestions?


I have a herniated disc that has forced me to abandon deadlifts and squats and i run a PPL where i alternate a heavy and a moderate workout.
Below is the program with only the moderate workouts, might be something you find interesting?

• 3 Cycles -> 3-5 Days rest or next workout deload (70% of normal weights) -> Repeat

D1 - Legs
D2 - Pull
D3
D4 - Push + abs
D5 - Legs
D6
D7 - Pull
D8 - Push + abs/light calves
D9

Warm up
Dynamic stretching (google Joe Defranco upper and lower body warm up), rotatorcuffs on pull/push (2x15 band internal/external rotation), maybe some foam rolling and 4 warm up sets in the main exercise (leg press, leg curl, bench and lat pulldown before moving to working sets in pull-ups).
Here's how the warm up sets can look like.

Progression/rest between sets
In the main exercises use a weight that allows you to hit 8 reps in the first 2 sets and when you can do 8 reps with good form and 1 rep shy of failure in the last set simply up the weight with the smallest amount possible the next workout.
In the rep range sets keep it simple and use a weight that allows you to stay whithin the rep range, if you go over in any set then increase the weight in that set the next workout and if you go under lower it, take it easy with concetric failure though, try to stay 1-2 reps shy of it in the majority of these sets.

/2', /1.5' etc behind the reps is the amount of rest between sets in that exercise.
Track it and write down your workouts so you know if you reach progressive overload or not.

Legs
Leg press: 3x8 + 1xAMQRAP (-20%)/2'
Dumbbell bulgarian split squat: 3x8-10/1.5'
Seated leg curl: 3x8/2' + Unilateral: 3x8-10/1.5'
Barbell hip thrust: 2x8/1.5'
Calf press in leg press: 3x6 + 3x10/1'
__________________________

Pull
Neutral pull-ups: 3x8/2'
Lying dumbbell row: 3x8/1.5'
Unilateral hammer row: 2x10-12/1.5'
Barbell shrugs: 3x8-10/1'
Preacher curl: 3x8/1.5'
Incline hammer curl: 2x10-12/1'

D2 (after shrugs)
Rear delt cable flyes: 3x10-12/1'
__________________________

Push
Bench press: 3x8 + 1xAMQRAP (-20%)/2'
Dumbbell shoulder press: 3x8/1.5'
Cable flyes: 2x10-12/1.5'
Cable lateral raise: 3x10-12/1'
Lying tricepsextension (behind head): 3x8/1.5'
Unilateral pushdown: 2x10-12/1'
+ Some rotatorcuff work, like 3x10-15 external rotations.

Abs/calves
Weighted captain's chair: 3x8/1.5'
Ball crunches or captain's chair: 3x10/1'
Calf press in leg press: 3x10 + 2x15/1'

Might want to throw in some static work for the abs as well, like planks or ab rollout.

PS, AMQRAP stands for "as many quality reps as possible".


This is EXACTLY what I've been looking for! Thanks a lot man. I really appreciate it. I'm going to start it up today.
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ajm87 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by qtdreams92
Do you think that 'rep range' is a good rule to use for a heart condition? I would have thought heart rate, heart pressure.. in otherwords body measurements would be safer. I am not sure if you use the rpe method when you are training? because that would be helpful too. Its where you get to control the effort and intensity.
Also progress can just mean more than adding weight. you can cut some rest time out, control the weights slowly down, super sets, and so on.


I see what you mean, but my cardiologist recommended the rep range because it would automatically require me to use less weight and aim for more reps. I think the aim is to not blow my aorta (I have aortic stenosis) by straining too much on lifts that can be in the lower rep range.

Using the RPE scale is actually a really good idea.
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ajm87 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamer93
Surely if your diet is good you should progress in an 8 rep plus range? Especially with push pull legs. If your not progressing the weight/reps and you are eating good I would imagine your volume is too high.

I would do push pull legs or upper lower split. You could even just try 3 full body days.


Yeah, that's what I am thinking. I am going to scale the volume down a little bit and use the split up above.
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Rawsteel private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajm87

This is EXACTLY what I've been looking for! Thanks a lot man. I really appreciate it. I'm going to start it up today.


Nps mate, and btw, if you can recover from it and have the time you can always try to run it as below, just to up the frequency a little bit.
Personally i prefer to run it as a 2 on, 1 off, 2 on since i alternate between a heavy and moderate workout and after the heavy one i feel i need a bit extra rest.

D1 - Pull
D2 - Push
D3 - Legs
D4
D5 - Pull
D6 - Push
D7

D1 - Legs
D2 - Pull
D3 - Push
D4
D5 - Legs
D6 - Pull
D7

Etc
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ajm87 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rawsteel
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajm87

This is EXACTLY what I've been looking for! Thanks a lot man. I really appreciate it. I'm going to start it up today.


Nps mate, and btw, if you can recover from it and have the time you can always try to run it as below, just to up the frequency a little bit.
Personally i prefer to run it as a 2 on, 1 off, 2 on since i alternate between a heavy and moderate workout and after the heavy one i feel i need a bit extra rest.

D1 - Pull
D2 - Push
D3 - Legs
D4
D5 - Pull
D6 - Push
D7

D1 - Legs
D2 - Pull
D3 - Push
D4
D5 - Legs
D6 - Pull
D7

Etc


How does this look

Week One

Sunday D1 - Push
Monday D2 - Legs/Abs
Tuesday D3 - Pull
Wednesday D4 - HIIT
Thursday D5 - Push
Friday D6 - Legs/Abs
Saturday D7 -

Week Two

Sunday D1 - Pull
Monday D2 - Push/Abs
Tuesday D3 - Legs
Wednesday D4 - HIIT
Thursday D5 - Pull
Friday D6 - Push/Abs
Saturday D7

Week Three

Sunday D1 - Legs
Monday D2 - Pull/Abs
Tuesday D3 - Push
Wednesday D4 - HIIT
Thursday D5 - Legs
Friday D6 - Pull/Abs
Saturday D7

Then deload for Push, Legs, Pull at 70% of lifts for 3 days then a day off then repeat the 3 week cycle again.

I wanted to do HIIT and Abs twice a week so I put HIIT on Wednesday, which is one of my off days, Abs is on D2 and D6 every week and then one additional HIIT session thrown in whenever during the week.
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Hamer93 private msg quote post Address this user
What's your body composition goal?
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ajm87 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamer93
What's your body composition goal?


Right now I am at 133 lbs and 5'9. I am around 11-12% bodyfat right now. I'd like to get back up to 165 eventually at around the same bodyfat.
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Zepa private msg quote post Address this user
@ajm87 Well any special reason to do HIIT if you are trying to bulk ?

I mean nothing wrong with that
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qtdreams92 private msg quote post Address this user
@ajm87 will you be switching about from light, light, medium and heavy days? And HIIT can be very hard in the heart. You can make it as challenging as you want obviously, still it's like the cardio version of doing 3-5 reps lol.
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ajm87 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zepa
@ajm87 Well any special reason to do HIIT if you are trying to bulk ?

I mean nothing wrong with that


I enjoy doing cardio. I might switch out the HIIT and just replace it with a 30 minute light jog a couple of times a week. No special reason per say, just a tip I had from Layne Norton as well as others that I have had programs made for me in the past. They all suggest cardio while bulking or cutting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by qtdreams92
@ajm87 will you be switching about from light, light, medium and heavy days? And HIIT can be very hard in the heart. You can make it as challenging as you want obviously, still it's like the cardio version of doing 3-5 reps lol.


Nope. I will be following the same rep scheme each workout. I really like rawsteel's layout and I started using it today.

You're right about HIIT being challenging for the heart, but preventing the valsalva maneuver while doing HIIT is much easier than it is when doing a heavy squat or deadlift. I think HIIT is much more controllable.
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Hamer93 private msg quote post Address this user
If your having trouble progressing and recovering drop the hiit for now
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Rawsteel private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajm87

How does this look

Week One

Sunday D1 - Push
Monday D2 - Legs/Abs
Tuesday D3 - Pull
Wednesday D4 - HIIT
Thursday D5 - Push
Friday D6 - Legs/Abs
Saturday D7 -

Week Two

Sunday D1 - Pull
Monday D2 - Push/Abs
Tuesday D3 - Legs
Wednesday D4 - HIIT
Thursday D5 - Pull
Friday D6 - Push/Abs
Saturday D7

Week Three

Sunday D1 - Legs
Monday D2 - Pull/Abs
Tuesday D3 - Push
Wednesday D4 - HIIT
Thursday D5 - Legs
Friday D6 - Pull/Abs
Saturday D7

Then deload for Push, Legs, Pull at 70% of lifts for 3 days then a day off then repeat the 3 week cycle again.


Looks good.
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