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My PPL routine16351

bicepKing private msg quote post Address this user
I have two sets of PPL, one slightly more strength focused and the other slightly more hypertrophy. Will be going PPL strength followed by 1-2 days rest, then PPL hypertrophy followed by 1-2 days rest.

Let me know what you think.

(strength)Push (Chest/Triceps/Shoulders):
Flat Barbell Bench Press: 3x6
Seated Barbell Overhead Press: 3x6
Incline DB Bench Press: 3x6
Dumbbell Side Lateral Raise: 3x8-10
Rope Pushdowns: 3x8-10
Overhead Dumbbell Extension: 3x8-10
Shrugs: 3x8-10

(strength)Pull (Back/Biceps):
Barbell Rows: 3x6
Lat Pulldowns or Chin ups (wide-grip): 3x8-10
Seated Rows or T-bar rows: 3x8-10
Deadlifts 3x6-8
Rear Delts: 3x-10-12
Barbell Curls (Alternate close and wide grip):4x-10-12
Choice of one other bicep exercise: 3x10-12

(strength)Legs (Quad/Ham/Calves):
Barbell Squats: 4x8
Hamstring Curls: 4x8
Leg Press : 4x10-12 (2 low feet, 2 high wide feet)
Leg Extensions (circuit machine): 3x10-12
Calf Raises: 5x8-10
Seated Calf Raises: 3x8-10

(hypertrophy) Push (Chest/Triceps/Shoulders):
(Superset) Incline DB Press : 3x8
(Superset) Incline Flies : 3x8
Smith-Machine Shoulder Press: 3x8
(superset) Dumbbell Side Lateral Raise: 3x10-12
(superset) Font Raise: 3x10-12
Additional Chest Exercise (FST7's)
Additional Shoulder exercise (FST7's)
Tricept Pushdowns or dips: 3x10-12
Overhead Dumbbell Extension or similar triceps: 3x10-12
Shrugs: 3x10-12

(hypertrophy) Pull (Back/Biceps):
(superset) Lat Pulldowns (wide-grip): 3x10-12
(superset) Close-Grip Pulldowns: 3x10-12
(superset) Seated Rows (Machine) wide-grip: 3x10-12
(superset) Seated Rows (Machine) close-grip: 3x10-12
Deadlifts or Hyperextensions 3x8-10
Additional Back exercise (FST7's)
Face Pulls: 3x-10-12
Incline Curls: 4x-10-12
Hammer Curls: 3x10-12
Choice of one other bicep exercise: 3x10-12

(hypertrophy) Legs (Quad/Ham/Calves):
Front Squats: 3x 12-15
Barbell Squats: 3 x 12 - 15, followed by 1 x 20
Stiff Legged Deadlifts 3x10
Hamstring Curls: 4x12-15
Leg Press: 4x12-15 (2 close low feet, 2 high wide feet)
Leg Extensions : 3x10-12 (last set drop set)
Calf Raises : 5x10-12
Seated Calf Raises: 3x10-12
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The Dark
Knight
eknight private msg quote post Address this user
Shrugs are not a push movement. Too much quad work, not enough hamstring. Not a fan of leg extensions. Absolutely hate your hypertrophy days. All those "intensity techniques" aren't going to increase growth, they're going to increase muscular endurance. Why complicate things? Just run the 3 days of strength- the research shows that you'll get the same hypertrophy response anyway. -3X
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bicepKing private msg quote post Address this user
Yes I know Shrugs aren't a push movement but it fits better on that day. Yeah I wasn't too sure about the hypertrophy days. Thanks for the feedback. Will just do the first 3 days then repeat.

Don't legs with feet high and wide on leg press target Hamstrings? Or do you think I should add stiff legged deadlift as well, or take out a quad workout?
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The Dark
Knight
eknight private msg quote post Address this user
It actually doesn't fit better on that day- all your scapular retraction movements should be grouped on the same day, but w/e. The routine you copy and pasted that from gets that criticism a lot.

Re. the leg press, position doesn't matter. The primary role of the hamstrings is knee flexion. No matter where your feet are in a leg press, you're performing knee extension, not flexion. I'd personally drop those knee wrecking leg extensions and add another ham curl. -3X
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Rawsteel private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by eknight
Just run the 3 days of strength- the research shows that you'll get the same hypertrophy response anyway. -3X


Is it Brad Schoenfeld's study you're talking about? The one where 2 groups lifted as much volume but where group 1 did low reps/heavy weight and the other high reps/moderate weight?

http://www.lookgreatnaked.com/blog/bodybuilding-vs-powerlifting-type-training-which-builds-more-strength-and-muscle/
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The Dark
Knight
eknight private msg quote post Address this user
Among others, yes. I feel like I've seen a couple of others that also came to this conclusion. -3X
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Rawsteel private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by bicepKing
Yes I know Shrugs aren't a push movement but it fits better on that day.


No it doesn't, as Eknight said, it's a pull movement.
If you're going to do it on push i suggest that you run it as a push/legs/pull instead, also, it doesn't hurt to let the shoulder girdle and elbows rest a day after push/pull since they are used significantly i both workouts.
And personally i don't like training back with sore shoulders/chest.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bicepKing
Yeah I wasn't too sure about the hypertrophy days. Thanks for the feedback. Will just do the first 3 days then repeat.


Both approaches has their ups and downs, as you can see in the study i posted in my previous comment.

• Low reps/high weight - Longer workout since more sets is required to get the volume, an increased risk of injury, more taxing on your CNS but better strength gains.
• Moderate weight/high reps - Shorter workout, less risk of injury, easier on your CNS but not as good strength gains.
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bicepKing private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by eknight
It actually doesn't fit better on that day- all your scapular retraction movements should be grouped on the same day, but w/e. The routine you copy and pasted that from gets that criticism a lot.

Re. the leg press, position doesn't matter. The primary role of the hamstrings is knee flexion. No matter where your feet are in a leg press, you're performing knee extension, not flexion. I'd personally drop those knee wrecking leg extensions and add another ham curl. -3X


Always appreciate constructive criticism. Thanks.
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bicepKing private msg quote post Address this user
Great thanks at @Rawsteel.

What do you guys think about the volume? I feel like I should add more.
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The Dark
Knight
eknight private msg quote post Address this user
Volume looks fine to me. Natural athletes don't need nearly as much as people like to do. -3X
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Rawsteel private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by bicepKing
Great thanks at @Rawsteel.

What do you guys think about the volume? I feel like I should add more.


No need, it doesn't require much to fully stimulate the protein synthesis in a muscle, moderate volume (30–60 repetitions per session) appear to yield the largest responses in terms of muscle growth.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15142003
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12618576
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17326698

And if i were you i would have done it like this

Pull + abs
Lying BB/DB row or chest supp t-bar row: 3x6
Pulldowns: 3x8
Unilateral row (db row or hammer strength): 3x10
Rear Delts + Shrugs: 3x10
Preacher or barbell curl: 3x8
Hammer curl: 2x12

Abs
Weighted plank: 4x60s or Ab rollout: 3xMax
Leg raises/captain's chair (without much low back rounding): 3x8 + 2x13-15

Push
Bench press: 3x6 + Pause (1s): 1x8 (-15% of main sets)
Seated Barbell Overhead Press: 3x8
Cable flyes: 3x10
Lateral raise: 3x10
Lying tricepsextension (behind head): 3x8
Unilateral pushdown: 2x12

Legs
Barbell Squats: 3x6 + Pause (1s): 1x8 (-25% of main sets)
Leg press or bulgarian split squat: 3x10
Romanian deadlift: 3x6
Seated leg curl: 3x10 + 2x15
Standing calf press or calf press in leg press: 3x8 + 2x13-15

Note, you should have ~1-2 reps left in the tank when finishing your paus set, for me this was -15% in bench and -25% in squat, it's most likely different for you.

The reason to why i think you should do a chest supp row instead of a normal bb row is because it's the opposite of a bench press, they also allow one to focus more on the back and the low back gets a break (less risk of injury).
I also removed incline db bench because it would be kind of overkill to do both bench, an OHP and an incline press for your anterior delts since they are recruited ALOT in chest presses, especially inclines.
This study actually shows that a 45° incline press recruits the anterior delts almost as much as a vertical press.
And when it comes to triceps i switched out pushdowns to lying tricepextension behind the head, in this you will train your triceps to a higher degree since the long head gets involved.

Also, if you really want to do normal DL's do them instead of RDL's, you will train your hams less and tax your CNS more though.
If i were to do normal DL's in a PPL i would have had 2 different leg workouts, one were i focus on DL and one on squat.
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bicepKing private msg quote post Address this user
Solid Post @Rawsteel. Sounds like sound advice that I will be using.

Have no idea how you find all those studies! Great work.
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golago private msg quote post Address this user
@eknight

u keep saying that high reps arnt good for muscle mass,
i remember whan u said it but i had no research to show u so now i do and i want to hear what u think about .
http://muscleevo.net/how-to-build-muscle-with-high-reps/
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The Dark
Knight
eknight private msg quote post Address this user
That's not a very compelling argument. The first study did not have equal volume. Trying to compare one set to three isn't exactly apples to apples. The rest of the studies either show "comparable" results or greater gains (9% vs 7%) with heavy weight and fewer reps. Even that study didn't use an equal comparison because the "greater reps" group had three times the concentric and eccentric TUT. Nothing there indicates better results from high rep training. -3X
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golago private msg quote post Address this user
@eknight


dont know how but i missed the most important part (volume :S)!
thank
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