Stronger 24/7 - Stronger Everyday
Stronger 24/7 Forum
Female FitnessForm CritiqueLegsProgress PicsSplit AdviceSquats

Please critique squat form! Desperate?16327

Jiaxie97 private msg quote post Address this user
Hi all, it's my first post, so please take it easy. Anyways I am 17, have been weightlifting for 7 months. My gym doesn't have a squat rack, so I usually squatted in a smith machine, until 2 weeks ago I decided two weeks ago to step it up and get a free weight barbell from the bench press to squat. Needless to say, I feel as if my form is TERRIBLE. I'm squatting my bodyweight here- 120 pounds- but it doesn't even look like a squat to me. Please help!
http://youtu.be/r761L_hcFbQ
Post 1 IP   flag post
_RudeCrew private msg quote post Address this user
No joke, for a first time squatter, it looks pretty good. Better than most people when they squat for the first time. The only issue I see is that your chest falls when you come out of the hole. Work on front squats and that will help.
Post 2 IP   flag post
Rand private msg quote post Address this user
Nice grinders and bail at the end. Impressive for a first timer.

^good advice
Post 3 IP   flag post
FiremanSi private msg quote post Address this user
@Jiaxie97 Great work for new guy definately.. Ur hips will raise first as do alot of begginers.. it can be 1 of many things unfortunately.. but that will come with time alot of them.. i.e.

-not maintaining neutral spine aka leading with ur head and chin too much

-Inaccurate breathing (if u dont hold ur air into ur stomach u will cave forward and leads to hips coming up first)

-Inability to maintain upper back tightness (It's a weakness alot of people have and i still work on it myself)

Thats some there but great start and u pushed urself which is rare in beginners so good work.
Post 4 IP   flag post
Beans private msg quote post Address this user
I agree with everything above. It's kind of hard to tell from that angle, but it actually looks way better than most beginners.

It actually looks like you could lower the weight a bit to practice your form. I think you'd benefit more than just trying to lift your body weight at the moment. As @FiremanSi said, your hips rise a lot at first, which is normally something people do accidentally for a mechanical advantage when they're lifting a lot of weight. Nice job lifting that weight, but struggling to get the bar up on the last few reps doesn't help when practicing form.
Post 5 IP   flag post
rememberthis private msg quote post Address this user
Your torso, minimum, should be within the red range in the image. For optimal squats, the blue range.

The advice fireman gave is really important. Practice, while laying down on the ground, to breathe in through your stomach (instead of your diaphragm) and feel your lower back squeeze the ground -- this means you've braced your spine with your abs and ready bring the weight back up.


Post 6 IP   flag post
GrizzlyBerg private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by rememberthis
Your torso, minimum, should be within the red range in the image. For optimal squats, the blue range.


How did you determine what is optimal?
Post 7 IP   flag post
Beans private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by rememberthis
Your torso, minimum, should be within the red range in the image. For optimal squats, the blue range.

The advice fireman gave is really important. Practice, while laying down on the ground, to breathe in through your stomach (instead of your diaphragm) and feel your lower back squeeze the ground -- this means you've braced your spine with your abs and ready bring the weight back up.




Too vague. Lots of factors come into play when determining how upright someone should be in a squat.
Post 8 IP   flag post
_RudeCrew private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by rememberthis
Your torso, minimum, should be within the red range in the image. For optimal squats, the blue range.

The advice fireman gave is really important. Practice, while laying down on the ground, to breathe in through your stomach (instead of your diaphragm) and feel your lower back squeeze the ground -- this means you've braced your spine with your abs and ready bring the weight back up.




You have no idea what you're talking about. Look at her legs, she has pretty long femurs, the only way to be as upright as you posted, she would have to squat with an insanely wide foot position, and most people can't handle the stress that would put on the hips.
Post 9 IP   flag post
ezvmoneybeast private msg quote post Address this user
@_RudeCrew Agreed. Also pretty sure she would also drop the weight. from the tension on her hips or pull her backwards
Post 10 IP   flag post
GrizzlyBerg private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by rememberthis
Your torso, minimum, should be within the red range in the image. For optimal squats, the blue range.


I'm just going to leave this here




I am going to make it even easier for you: skip straight to 3:30 in that video.

For those too lazy to watch: Forward lean is determine by the length of floor to knee and knee to hip.



Or 12:50 in this video.

Too lazy to watch: You want to stay as upright as you reasonably can, THAT IS DETERMINED BY YOUR ANGLES. Longer femurs, more forward lean to reach depth. Spine neutrality is more important than forward lean.
Post 11 IP   flag post
rememberthis private msg quote post Address this user
@GrizzlyBerg, @beans, and @_RudeCrew quick arch differential based on optimal angle range (from a biomechanical point of view, torso parallel to the tibia is optimal).

I agree there is an absolute error in there, but it's a theoretical value... I think for her reference, it should suffice to know where she needs to aim for -- regardless of her particular bone structure or mobility.
Post 12 IP   flag post
Jiaxie97 private msg quote post Address this user
Thank you for all the tips everyone! I thought my squat sort of looked like a "good morning squat." Reading more things online, people say it could be a lack of ankle flexibility, so I might work on that as well. Otherwise than that, am I right when I say I should lower the weight 5-10 pounds to work on form? I think I get the bulk of what you are all saying- tighten upper back, hold air in on descent and brace the core/keep spine straight (not precisely sure how to do this though), pull elbows down, press bar into back on ascent with chest up... Anything else?
Post 13 IP   flag post
GrizzlyBerg private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by rememberthis
regardless of her particular bone structure or mobility.


You have to be kidding me right? So you are telling her she should force herself to squat like your "optimal" model (which you admit is purely theoretical based on who knows what). She should be squatting the way that is best for HER.
Post 14 IP   flag post
TimmothyGen private msg quote post Address this user
Make some gains.
Post 15 IP   flag post
Jiaxie97 private msg quote post Address this user
And @GrizzlyBerg I do think you are right. However, would you say although I have longer femurs, I still am leaning forward too much on the ascent of the squat?
Post 16 IP   flag post
rememberthis private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrizzlyBerg
Quote:
Originally Posted by rememberthis
regardless of her particular bone structure or mobility.


You have to be kidding me right? So you are telling her she should force herself to squat like your "optimal" model (which you admit is purely theoretical based on who knows what). She should be squatting the way that is best for HER.
Not sure if you're trolling me or just being unbearably skeptical.


EVERY problem has a (1) General solution and a (2) Particular solution.

I'm saying a squat is a squat and there is an optimal squat that should be aimed for (1) regardless of bone structure and mobility. Once it is aimed for, she can tackle her (2) particular bone structure and mobility issues.

Everyone is giving her particular advice, I gave her general advice. Take a fucking chill pill.
Post 17 IP   flag post
_RudeCrew private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by rememberthis
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrizzlyBerg
Quote:
Originally Posted by rememberthis
regardless of her particular bone structure or mobility.


You have to be kidding me right? So you are telling her she should force herself to squat like your "optimal" model (which you admit is purely theoretical based on who knows what). She should be squatting the way that is best for HER.
Not sure if you're trolling me or just being unbearably skeptical.


EVERY problem has a (1) General solution and a (2) Particular solution.

I'm saying a squat is a squat and there is an optimal squat that should be aimed for (1) regardless of bone structure and mobility. Once it is aimed for, she can tackle her (2) particular bone structure and mobility issues.

Everyone is giving her particular advice, I gave her general advice. Take a fucking chill pill.


No, you are just being stupid.
Post 18 IP   flag post
GrizzlyBerg private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by rememberthis
Not sure if you're trolling me or just being unbearably skeptical.



I don't troll. I have a life.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rememberthis

EVERY problem has a (1) General solution and a (2) Particular solution.


I was unaware squatting is like differential equations. General solutions are useful in which the initial conditions are unknown. If the initial conditions are given. In this case the initial conditions were given in the form of a video. Therefore, a particular solution is more useful than a general solution.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rememberthis
I'm saying a squat is a squat and there is an optimal squat that should be aimed for (1) regardless of bone structure and mobility. Once it is aimed for, she can tackle her (2) particular bone structure and mobility issues.


A squat is not a squat. Everything does not fit in a tiny, neat, little box. One should "optimize" their squat for THEIR leverages. Why waste time working on things that are not "optimal" for your specific situation?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rememberthis
Take a fucking chill pill.


I am chill.
Post 19 IP   flag post
GrizzlyBerg private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jiaxie97
And @GrizzlyBerg I do think you are right. However, would you say although I have longer femurs, I still am leaning forward too much on the ascent of the squat?


I personally feel, as @FiremanSi said, your hips are rising before the rest of your body. This will cause you to lean forward more than necessary. I am not saying you shouldn't focus on being more upright; I think you should. I just do not think you need to force yourself/worry about fitting into @rememberthis "optimal" ranges.

Watch the video I posted from Layne Norton above. Try to implement the advice you have been given. Continue to film your squats. Constantly assess your progress. I think you are starting off in a much better position than most beginners.

I hope my debate with @rememberthis turns you off from posting here. I hope you continue to post and seek help until you feel you are in a good position.
Post 20 IP   flag post
Jiaxie97 private msg quote post Address this user
@GrizzlyBerg Will definitely take that advice! I think I'm going to lower the weight to 110 to work on form, until I feel good with it. Form over weight I guess! Ugh I wish I never did the smith machine squats, it messed with everything. I was just too scared to squat without a rack
Post 21 IP   flag post
Beans private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by rememberthis
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrizzlyBerg
Quote:
Originally Posted by rememberthis
regardless of her particular bone structure or mobility.


You have to be kidding me right? So you are telling her she should force herself to squat like your "optimal" model (which you admit is purely theoretical based on who knows what). She should be squatting the way that is best for HER.
Not sure if you're trolling me or just being unbearably skeptical.


EVERY problem has a (1) General solution and a (2) Particular solution.

I'm saying a squat is a squat and there is an optimal squat that should be aimed for (1) regardless of bone structure and mobility. Once it is aimed for, she can tackle her (2) particular bone structure and mobility issues.

Everyone is giving her particular advice, I gave her general advice. Take a fucking chill pill.


Nobody said she doesn't have to be more upright. I think everyone was thrown off by the fact that you popped a random image on a picture without taking into account angle of the video, her height, bar placement on her back, stance width, or her bone structure, and said "this is optimal." Extreme example, tell a guy that's 6' and 300 pounds that low bar squats that's optimal, and he'll laugh.
Post 22 IP   flag post
rememberthis private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrizzlyBerg


I was unaware squatting is like differential equations. General solutions are useful in which the initial conditions are unknown. If the initial conditions are given. In this case the initial conditions were given in the form of a video. Therefore, a particular solution is more useful than a general solution.


Now, you are aware.

Listen, you probably give great advice and don't want to have this debate but are just really eager to get the last word. I've been down this path before in these forums and in this particular (irony) debate, I don't think it's worth it.

You're wrong on the differential equation analogy you made. If you care to know why, I'll get into it in private message, but again, I don't think it applies or will make anything productive to the OP.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GrizzlyBerg

A squat is not a squat. Everything does not fit in a tiny, neat, little box. One should "optimize" their squat for THEIR leverages. Why waste time working on things that are not "optimal" for your specific situation?


Start at the end, sure. You have no idea whether she can aim to raise her torso some more before you reach the conclusion that she has long/short femurs, etc.

We approach the problem differently. I think you miss that, completely.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GrizzlyBerg

I hope my debate with @rememberthis turns you off from posting here. I hope you continue to post and seek help until you feel you are in a good position.

I hope it doesn't turn you off. This is what the forum is all about, debating and finding out what we chose to accept (or not).
Post 23 IP   flag post
TimmothyGen private msg quote post Address this user
Also there are age gaps but me and peterbrah are both 16 so. You should make a log. It's up to you.
Post 24 IP   flag post
rememberthis private msg quote post Address this user
Also, I'm a huge fan. HUGE FAN of Norton, but his form is not optimal.

Here's my suggestion:
Post 25 IP   flag post
Beans private msg quote post Address this user


He has multiple videos discussing squat form and why nothing is perfect for everyone.

Edit: But agreed, his squat is sexy.
Post 26 IP   flag post
GrizzlyBerg private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrizzlyBerg

I hope my debate with @rememberthis turns you off from posting here. I hope you continue to post and seek help until you feel you are in a good position.


Sorry. I did not want to be misleading. I meant to say I hope the debate DOES NOT turn you off from posting. I hope you stick around.



Quote:
Originally Posted by rememberthis
You have no idea whether she can aim to raise her torso some more before you reach the conclusion that she has long/short femurs, etc.


Read my advice to OP. I told her I DO BELIEVE she needs to be more upright. I was more debating the fact that you randomly threw two boxes (which you still have yet to reference how you determined them) on a screenshot and told her she must fit within your standards.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rememberthis
Also, I'm a huge fan. HUGE FAN of Norton, but his form is not optimal.


Tell that to his 661 IPF squat record.


I'm done debating @rememberthis. Have the last word. We clearly have different ways of looking at it. No skin off my back.
Post 27 IP   flag post
_RudeCrew private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by rememberthis
Also, I'm a huge fan. HUGE FAN of Norton, but his form is not optimal.



Post 28 IP   flag post
rememberthis private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrizzlyBerg

Read my advice to OP. I told her I DO BELIEVE she needs to be more upright. I was more debating the fact that you randomly threw two boxes (which you still have yet to reference how you determined them) on a screenshot and told her she must fit within your standards.

clickable text
Post 29 IP   flag post
Kansas___Boyyyyy private msg quote post Address this user
guess he didnt learn anything from his debate with ek
Post 30 IP   flag post
340738 54 30
destitute