Stronger 24/7 - Stronger Everyday
Stronger 24/7 Forum
NewbieSplit Advice

Can a beginner run this routine ?15383

Alwaystrying private msg quote post Address this user
And have success ? Training for appearance (building muscle) which goes hand by hand with getting stronger I believe. Nutrition part of FAQ has been read and understood. Here is the routine:

3 on / 1 off

Day 1 : Chest/Arms

-Flat Barbell Bench 3x6-8
-Incline Dumbbell Bench 3x6-8
-Flat Dumbbell Flye 3x8-10
-Dips 3x10-12
* Cable Crossover performed every 2nd-3rd session *

-Barbell Curl 3x6-8 / Lying French Press 3x6-8
-Incline Dumbbell Curl 3x8-10 / Tricep Pressdown 3x10-12
-Preacher Curl 3x8-10/ Overhead Extension 3x8-10

Workout Duration : Approximately 45-60 minutes

Day 2 : Legs/Calves

-Back Squats 3x6-8 (alternate with Front Squats)
-Leg Press 3x8-10
-Leg Extension 3x10-12
-Romanian Deadlift 3x6-8
-Leg Curls 3x10-12

-Calf Press 3x15-20


Workout Duration : Approximately 40-50 minutes

Day 3 : Back/Delts

-Barbell Row 3x6-8
-Lat Pulldown 3x10-12
-Cable Row 3x8-10
-TBAR Row 3x6-8 (Dumbbell Row if heavy enough DB's)
* Shrugs performed every 2nd-3rd session *

-Military Press 3x6-8
-Side Lateral / Face Pulls 3x8-10
-Upright Row 3x6-8

Would like to ask you shredded brahs here about this. A guy posted this in the forum of bb.com and said it is the most optimal 3 day on, one day off for bodybuilding, a split recommended by Lee Haney. You do the 3 days , rest and repeat.

The exercises which are in the same line and separated by a "/" are usually supersetted but that is only to save time, they can be done one by one.


What do you brahs thinks ? Would be grateful for answers and honest ones
Post 1 IP   flag post
The Dark
Knight
eknight private msg quote post Address this user
Functionally not good. Little short on the pull movements and not enough direct hamstring work. -3X
Post 2 IP   flag post
Alwaystrying private msg quote post Address this user
1. Do you think that you can make the necessary improvements according to you ?

2. If yes, will that make this routine doable and good for me and my goals, or I shouldn't even bother ?
Post 3 IP   flag post
brian12 private msg quote post Address this user
@Alwaystrying Looks good to me - I like the Chest/arms, Legs, Back and shoulder split. I prefer it to the traditional PPL split. As long as your nutrition is down and you progress in ur routine, you will definitely see nice gains with this. 3 on 1 off is quite a lot. I would aim to do 4-5 sessions a week. Good luck!
Post 4 IP   flag post
Alwaystrying private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by brian12
@Alwaystrying Looks good to me - I like the Chest/arms, Legs, Back and shoulder split. I prefer it to the traditional PPL split. As long as your nutrition is down and you progress in ur routine, you will definitely see nice gains with this. 3 on 1 off is quite a lot. I would aim to do 4-5 sessions a week. Good luck!



But, for a beginner seems fine also ?
Post 5 IP   flag post
brian12 private msg quote post Address this user
@Alwaystrying yes
Post 6 IP   flag post
Alwaystrying private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by eknight
Functionally not good. Little short on the pull movements and not enough direct hamstring work. -3X


Hey eknight,

1. What if I go on a proven beginner routine for a few months that can introduce me to lifting, like ICF 5X5 (what do you think about this for my goals and good starting point?) and then transition to this split in the OP ?

2. If that sounds like a great idea and a plan, how long would you recommend me to stick to ICF
Post 7 IP   flag post
The Dark
Knight
eknight private msg quote post Address this user
Almost all of the "proven routines" suffer from the same problems as this one. As long as you supplement with another direct knee flexion movement and a few more pulling sets, you can usually balance out any routine. I would stick to whatever plan you start with for at least 6 months. -3X
Post 8 IP   flag post
Alwaystrying private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by eknight
Almost all of the "proven routines" suffer from the same problems as this one. As long as you supplement with another direct knee flexion movement and a few more pulling sets, you can usually balance out any routine. I would stick to whatever plan you start with for at least 6 months. -3X



If you had my goals, to look very good (like a fitness model) because I am a 17-year-old ( You know how it is man, parties, girls, I care about education though and health) who has gone through obesity and being traumatized since a kid, which beginner routine would you recommend me to follow and can you tell me in particular the changes as in more pulling sets or more pulling movements and just another hamstring curl ? After the beginner routine, would running this be good and effective towards my goals ?


With those being answered, I would like to wish you to live a happy life with your family and I wish them all nothing but health and good luck. Thanks.
Post 9 IP   flag post
Zyzzst private msg quote post Address this user
@eknight im confused how he doesnt have direct hamstring work with leg curls and romanian deadlifts....

but i do agree that he needs a lot more pulling movements i would almost double the volume on the back day thats posted and only 3 sets of calves a week? that isnt going to do anything especially because they are one of the most used muscles on the body i would probably do at least 9 sets a week
Post 10 IP   flag post
The Dark
Knight
eknight private msg quote post Address this user
If you're a beginner, I'd run something full-body 3 days per week. After 3-4 months you could go to a split. I'm not sure what you're asking about the changes- you need more pulling volume than what these routines offer for shoulder health, and more direct hamstring work for knee health. Any routine that provides adequate progressive resistance will help you meet your goals.

@Zyzzst 9 sets of quad dominant, and 6 sets of hamstring dominant work, with only 3 of those involving knee flexion. -3X
Post 11 IP   flag post
Zyzzst private msg quote post Address this user
@eknight yea man i see that its unbalanced i just didnt get the part where you said it wasnt enough direct hamstring work....but i think you were basically saying it wasnt balanced right?
Post 12 IP   flag post
The Dark
Knight
eknight private msg quote post Address this user
No, I was saying that there isn't enough direct hamstring work. The primary role of the hamstrings is to flex the knees, not extend the hips. The gluteus group are your primary hip extensors. He has three movements that extend the knee, and only one that flexes it- so more direct hamstring work is necessary.

Think of it like this- one of the roles of the biceps is shoulder flexion, but if you want to adequately work them, your going to do curls, not front raises, because the major role of the biceps is elbow flexion. Same goes with the knee/hip. -3X
Post 13 IP   flag post
Zyzzst private msg quote post Address this user
@eknight so basically what you want him to do is 9 sets of hamstring curls to balance it out? There arent many exercises besides that that work the hamstring directly....or am i forgetting something...
Post 14 IP   flag post
The Dark
Knight
eknight private msg quote post Address this user
I would say 3 sets of the deads he is doing, 3 sets of curls, and 3 sets of Glute-ham raises, which are more functional, anyway. There's your 9 sets. -3X
Post 15 IP   flag post
Alwaystrying private msg quote post Address this user
What would be the changes to pull and after the fullbody and the changes to pull, would you run the Lee Haney stuff in the OP
Post 16 IP   flag post
The Dark
Knight
eknight private msg quote post Address this user
You need more volume. I would personally shoot for a 2:1 volume of pull:push. -3X
Post 17 IP   flag post
Alwaystrying private msg quote post Address this user
Do you have any suggestions man ? Because I don't know how to add exercises without making this routine full of crap.
Post 18 IP   flag post
The Dark
Knight
eknight private msg quote post Address this user
You don't need to add anything necessarily, just increase the volume on your pulling movements. -3X
Post 19 IP   flag post
Alwaystrying private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by eknight
You don't need to add anything necessarily, just increase the volume on your pulling movements. -3X


Ok, will do this with more volume on back. But that is after I have done some ICF.

To sum up, this routine does cover the whole body and particularly the whole back ? ( the 3 on one off )
Post 20 IP   flag post
The Dark
Knight
eknight private msg quote post Address this user
Yes. But why are you so worried about it? You're not going to be doing it for months, during which time you can hopefully learn a bit more and will have the tools to pick a good routine and modify whatever you pick as needed. -3X
Post 21 IP   flag post
Alwaystrying private msg quote post Address this user
I am an paralysis-by-analysis guy........dunno mate.

Now I feel more determined and motivated because you approved the two routines which are going to make me look good ( + diet ofc) and those are routines for at least a year, maybe the 3 on one off is very good and will make me get gains for a lot of time. It just feels good man that I have spoken to someone like you. I tend to double-check stuff before I try something out - bad habit butttt may come in handy sometimes during one's life...


Btw, before I got into lifting I was listening to some gym rats talking in the hallways of my school. They said that deadlifts **** up your back in the long run despite being done with correct form. I wanted to know YOUR take on this and what is exactly the difference between SLDL and regular - in activation, impact, chance of ***** up (cuz in the split there are SFDL and in ICF there are regular but one setx5 so np).

Thanks
Post 22 IP   flag post
The Dark
Knight
eknight private msg quote post Address this user
Any exercise done incorrectly can be dangerous. Deadlifts are a great exercise for strengthening the erector spinae and multifidi, but they do carry a slightly greater risk of injury than some other movements because the spine is in flexion at the start of the concentric phase of movement, which means the lumbar discs are in a particularly vulnerable position. As long as you don't go too heavy too soon, and focus on form over poundage, I think they're a great exercise.

The primary difference between SLDL and "regular" deads is that SLDLs involve more glute and hamstring activation, and less quad and lumbar activation than a traditional dead. The amount of glute usage between the two is minimal, though. -3X
Post 23 IP   flag post
Alwaystrying private msg quote post Address this user
Btw, speaking of glutes hamstrings and quads, I am a former obese child, 101 kilos at 175 cm height, I lost weight drastically with no knowledge of things and doing 2-h cardio sesseions and eating a few veggies day and dropped down to 65 at 175cm height for 3 months. I want to draw two things form the above:

1. My legs are bigger and stronger perhaps because of genetics the fact that those two legs had to carry a fat body and all the running and stationary bike. Should I be worried after doing icf and the OP routine afterwards about my legs getting disproportionally bigger than my upper body and I am afraid of ending up looking like a pair ? Is it all in my head and I presume I shouldn't be worried as they will actually lean out a lil bit due to muscle being built there ?



2. My stats are 66 kilos atm; 175cm height and 17yold, you know what my goal is, what would you do with diet ? I think I am a little bit skinny fat. Bulk up with gaining weight slowly or just eat at maintenance and don't change my current weight but just changes in the mirror ? :P
Post 24 IP   flag post
The Dark
Knight
eknight private msg quote post Address this user
1. No don't worry. You're just starting out. It's way too early to start worrying about the fine-tuning details.
2. Eat at maintenance or slightly above to take advantage of noobie gains. -3X
Post 25 IP   flag post
Alwaystrying private msg quote post Address this user
^ and when I build a solid foundation while eating at maintenance (eating so that I don't lose weight and enough for recovery)

I might do a not so long cut after that to do get down to some lower double digits bf percentage....which will make me look like a fitness model. Sweet


Btw, it all makes sense know.

If I am a beginner and have the greatest ability to recover, what will make me get more gains, hitting my muscle 2x a week or hitting them 3x a week ? Wellps, answer is in the question.

Thanks for everything
Post 26 IP   flag post
340764 26 26
destitute