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5/3/1 critique , advice14858

Dem41 private msg quote post Address this user
Hey guys, I am nearing the end of my cut and starting to think out my bulking routine, wanted to get any advice/suggestions to make sure i don't really leave anything out.
It's basically the 5/3/1 simplest strength template.

I always warm up with the DeFranko agile 8 and recently added in the 3d band pull aparts

Monday
Squats 5/3/1
SLDL 10/8/5
Good mornings 5x10
Want to add in some calf work ???
Superset weighted decline sit ups and body weight hyperextentions

Tuesday
Bench press 5/3/1
Pull ups/chins between bench 5x5
Incline dumbbell press 10/8/5
Band pull aparts between bench ?x10
Dips. 3x5-10
Dumbbell rows 2x10, 1x15-20
Triceps pull down rope or v bar 3x10-20
Barbell curls. 3x10-20
Lying/hanging leg raise 3x10


Thursday
Deadlifts 5/3/1
Front squats 10/8/5
Glute Ham Raise 3x5
Maybe some calf work?
Superset decline bench weighted sit-ups and body weight hyperextentions

Friday
Military press 5/3/1
Pull ups/chins in between pressing 5x5
Close grip bench press 10/8/5
Band pull aparts between bench ?x10
Dips 3x10
Dumbbell rows 2x10, 1x15-20
Triceps pull downs, straight/curved bar 3x10-20
Hammer curls 3x10-20
Lying leg raise/hanging leg raise 3x10




I have been doing 50 total pull ups/chins during the 2 upper body days , just hitting all that I could in multiple sets, usually 7,7,6 and sometimes only one. Wanted to spread them out over the 4 workout days ? 25 a day until I can hit 10, then shoot for 2 days 5x10.


Thanks
Dem
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FiremanSi private msg quote post Address this user
Seems like alot of volume on ur upper days ??

U should try limiting this for the start of the routine.
I found better strength gains with a limited amount of volume.

I did the pull ups in between my heavy work also but not for 5x5... just went about 1-2reps from failure.
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Piggles private msg quote post Address this user
Dammit @FiremanSi ! :P

I was just writing that!!

You say you are looking to bulk but more specifically what are your goals? What is your experience?

I'm not as young as some of the guys on this forum (29) and I found that running 5/3/1 with too much volume was a bit of a mistake - depending on your experience you may be able to handle it, but I find that my intensity just dropped for those sets, my form went to crap and the carryover fatigue effected my subsequent days too much.

Now I'm running it with my main 5/3/1 sets, then 10 supplementary sets and it's going super sweet.
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Dem41 private msg quote post Address this user
Thanks for the input guys, this is why I am glad I posted this .


My lifting experience is just over 1 year, with only 2, 2 week breaks due to sickness . had been running Doug's 4 day routine from muscle and strength, switched to 5/3/1 in December to focus more on strength .

On the pull ups, I dropped them down this week to 5x5 as the last few months the best I have been able to do switching grips each set has been 7 wide pull, 7 close chin, 6 shoulder neutral grip, then 2-4 reps changing grips again until I had a total of 50. Upper days is a lot of volume but maybe I read Jim's comments in the second edition wrong on what to add.
What would you guys suggest I drop ? For the next year my focus is on getting stronger.
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Piggles private msg quote post Address this user
Si can probably offer better advice than me here, but if you're looking at strength I'd probably drop the DB incline bench and arm stuff.

Also, maybe prioritize dips ahead of other push movements (except BB bench), that way you can do more of them safely.
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The Dark
Knight
eknight private msg quote post Address this user
Overall, your routine seems anterior heavy (or posterior lacking, however you want to look at it). -3X
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Dem41 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by eknight
Overall, your routine seems anterior heavy (or posterior lacking, however you want to look at it). -3X


What would you suggest I change ?
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The Dark
Knight
eknight private msg quote post Address this user
More direct hamstring work (knee flexion, not deads), more back work, less pressing. -3X
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Dem41 private msg quote post Address this user
Thanks for the advice guys, going to take a good look at the advice and make some changes. Still very noob and as I saw fireman state in another post , the accessory work can be confusing as heck to program . Specially when I personally dont know much lol. Why I picked this as it already had the primary lifts along with Jim's assigned primary assistance work, and tons of suggestions for the accessory after that.
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kickinchicken private msg quote post Address this user
Take out the hyperextensions. Not sure why anyone wants to purposely hyperextended their back. Especially when you already have good mornings.

And I wouldn't do curls before your deadlift day.

And I'd replace sit ups with cable crunches. Much better ab/core exercise. Sit ups are bad for your spine anyway.

5/3/1 is made to be simple. You don't really need to do curls or calves. If you've only been lifting a year then just stick with just a very select few exercises the program recommends and you'll get the size you want.
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Dem41 private msg quote post Address this user
Thanks for the critique and suggestions guys, changed it up a bit as suggested, here are the revisions i have made, any other suggestions would be appreciated

Monday
Squats 5/3/1 ) programed lift
SLDL 10/8/5 ) programed lift
Good mornings 5x10
seated leg curls 3x10
Superset weighted decline sit ups and back raises. 3x10

Tuesday
Bench press 5/3/1 )programed lift
Pull ups/chins between bench total of 30 reps, however many sets it takes
Incline dumbbell press 10/8/5 ) programed lift
Band pull aparts between bench ?x10
Kroc rows 2x10 warm up, 1x15-20
high pull machine rows 3x10
Lying/hanging leg raise 3x10


Thursday
Deadlifts 5/3/1 ) programed lift
Front squats 10/8/5 ) programed lift
Glute Ham Raise 3x10
box jumps 3x10
Superset weighted sit-ups and body weight back raise 3x10 on bolth

Friday
Military press 5/3/1 ) programed lift
Pull ups/chins in between pressing 30 total reps in as many sets as needed
Close grip bench press 10/8/5 programed lift
Band pull aparts between bench ?x10
kroc rows2x10 warm up, 1x15-20
seated cable rows 3x10
Hammer curls 3x10-20 (these are in here because i enjoy them and they relate to my daily job)
Lying leg raise/hanging leg raise 3x10


kickin. i do the back raises with a stiff back and only to parallel. i feel this in my glutes and lower back some. its something that i have found works great as a finisher and seems to help relive some tension in my lower back. on the situps i dont understand how these hurt your spine ?done correctly i have only ever felt these in my abdomen .
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kickinchicken private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dem41

kickin. i do the back raises with a stiff back and only to parallel. i feel this in my glutes and lower back some. its something that i have found works great as a finisher and seems to help relive some tension in my lower back. on the situps i dont understand how these hurt your spine ?done correctly i have only ever felt these in my abdomen .

Sit ups are a root cause of spinal injuries and LBP(lower back pain) and are much less effective at developing and and core. I don't do sit ups and I don't let people I'm training do sit ups. We focus on core strength and almost everyone has improved their sit ups because of it. Dieting is 90% of good visible and anyway. Crunches are a better option but optimally for over all ab development I wouldn't waste my time with em when resistance core exercises will do the same. Your incline weighted sit ups are a decent option as long as you are not bringing your upper body too close to your legs because of the emphasis on pulling your spine. I just believe there are better options that are safer. Do what chu do. Just my 2 cents.

I've got some studies I can link later when I go to work.
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Dem41 private msg quote post Address this user
Thanks for the information kickin, honestly up till the time I got the 5/3/1 book I never did any core work. And jim reccomended a 4 part core workout, weighted sit-ups, hanging leg raises, dumbell side bends and ab roller 2-4 sets 2 times a week so I just started doing that.
Never really looked into it after that just started doing it . other then the trainers at my gym having a cow over me doing a weighted side bend, so I stoped that.
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kickinchicken private msg quote post Address this user
@Dem41 Sure dude. Here's a couple things to check out.

Shows how injuries during sit ups take 2x as long to recover from than core exercise injuries
clickable text

Discusses that performance from core work instead of sit ups increases as well as decreases chances of injuries at the same time.

clickable text

Sit-ups work primarily the front of your trunk. Core specific exercises engage your entire trunk and done correctly will not degrade your spine from constant bending at high rates yet still produce the same or better results not just for looks but for over all health and athletic performance. Which is why I believe there is no point to them.

Yeah, Wendler is all about core work. Another thing he's big on is mobility work as well. He is a big fan of Limber 11. Once I placed a bigger focus on mobility work I saw more of dem gainzzzzzz!
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Dem41 private msg quote post Address this user
@kickinchicken good info there man, thanks for posting those.
i am defiantly a fan of mobility work now, the agile 8 has a made a huge difference in my workouts since i started doing them. also been doing the morning mobility hes got posted in the beyond book. ill research the limber 11.

other then the cable crunches, and hanging leg raises. what would you suggest for obliques ? i am primarily after strengthening my core to help with my lifts, almost 42 years old here abs are nice but not my main focus at this point. would rather squat, deadlift and ohp with a tight solid core to support them.
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