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Am I PHAT?14698

swollenscott private msg quote post Address this user
Still finishing a cut and running PPL. Begin reverse dieting in 5 weeks and thinking of begining PHAT.

Would be interested in some feedback on the below PHAT split. I've streamlinned the strength days. i also wanted to do regular deadlifts so I included them on Lower Body Power Day.

I'm 27, 6'1, 88kg at 15% BF.

Power Hypertrophy Adaptive Training Routine:
Day 1: Upper Body Power Day
• Supported Row 5x5
• Weighted Pull ups 4x8
• Barbell Flat Press 5x5
• Standing Military Press 4X8
• Facepulls 3x10
• Barbell Curl 3x8-10
• Close Grip Bench 3x8-10
Day 2: Lower Body Power Day
• Squat 5X5
• Deadlifts 5x5
• Barbell Hip Thrusters 4x8
• Standing calf raise 5x10
Day 3: Rest
Day 4: Back and Shoulders Hypertrophy Day
• Supported Row 6x3 (65-70% of normal 3-5 rep max)
• DB Row 4x 8-12
• Wide pulldown 3x8-12
• Close grip pulldown 2x12-15
• Seated dumbbell presses 3x8-12
• Side lateral raises with dumbbells or cables 3x12-20
• Facepulls 4x15-20
• Shrugs 3x12-15
Day 5: Lower Body Hypertrophy Day
• Squat 6x3 (65-70% of normal 3-5 rep max)
• Hack squats 3x8-12
• Leg presses 3x15
• Leg extensions 3x15-20
• Goodmorning 3x8-12
• Lying Leg curl 3x12-15
• Seated leg ext 3x15-20
• Standing calf raises 3x10-15
• Seated calf raises 3x15-20
Day 6: Chest and Arms Hypertrophy Day
• Flat Barbell presses 6x3 (65-70% of normal 3-5 rep max)
• Incline dumbbell presses 3x8-12
• Hammer strength chest press 3x12-15
• Incline cable flyes 2x15-20
• Concentration curl 3x10-12
• Preacher curl 3x10-12
• Hammer curl 3x10-12
• Skullcrusher 3 x8-12
• Cable pressdowns 2x12-15
• OH DB ext 2 sets of 15-20
Day 7: Rest
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FiremanSi private msg quote post Address this user
How long u been training ??

Leg hyper day looks too congested.. maybe take 1 or 2 exercises out and add to power day.
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swollenscott private msg quote post Address this user
Take lying curls and leg ext to power day? I sorta want to keep leg presses on the volume/ hyper days as they feel great.

Been training 7 years but first 3-4 were with no structure, no progression focus. Just a mess and results echoed this. Started at 66kg and end of highest weight of a bulker's bulk of 110kg. Then you do your homework and realise that wasn't too clever. Oh dear
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swollenscott private msg quote post Address this user
Might try post a workout log too. Have you found them helpful?
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FiremanSi private msg quote post Address this user
A log helpful ???

I did PHAT its god program just too mch exercise variation i think and i don't think many people will get the full benefit of it.
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swollenscott private msg quote post Address this user
Log or online workout journal. Do you think it's helpful over the usual writing down in a notebook?

So about too much exercises. Maybe less variation but more sets per exercise? Say like the proven 4x8 70%RM or 8x8 60%RM for volume days? Strength days I want to keep streamlined

http://www.t-nation.com/training/22-proven-rep-schemes
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The Dark
Knight
eknight private msg quote post Address this user
Your lower hypertrophy day isn't very well balanced. I'd revisit it. I'd also either to squats OR deads on lower power day, since the guy who wrote the original program is pretty clear about that point. -3X
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swollenscott private msg quote post Address this user
Alter lower power day to:
Deadlift 5x5
Good mornings 4x8
Leg press 5x10
Leg ext 4x8-10
Bb hip thrusters 4x8-10
Calf raises 5x10

Alter lower hypertrophy to
Speed deadlift 6x3
Hack squat machine 3x10
Bulgarian split squat 3x12
Leg ext 3x15
Glut ham raise 3x10
Lyin curl 3x12-15
Standing calf 3x15
Seated calf 3x15nit taking speed deadlifts into account over the week there is a 1:1 quad to ham ratio and also no bb squats with deadlifts. Better balanced now?
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The Dark
Knight
eknight private msg quote post Address this user
Still far too quad dominant. Your ACL's are taking a beating with that set-up. -3X
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swollenscott private msg quote post Address this user
I count the deadlift as a posterior chain and hip dominant exercise. I've always felt them in my hamstrings and gluts. So when working out ratios I would count it as such. Even if I did not include them in the quad and hamstring ratio workings- as let's face it everything is working, the ratio of quad to hamstring dominant exercises would still be even.

Hamstrings = deadliftsx2, goodmornings, leg curl, glut ham raise, hip thrusts. (7 exercises)
Quads= hack squat, split squat, leg press, leg ext x2. (5 exercises)

I don't understand how that is quad dominant at all?
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The Dark
Knight
eknight private msg quote post Address this user
I guess maybe you don't have a handle on the anatomy, then. Semitendinosus and semimembranosus are active in hip extension movements, but the short head of biceps femoris is not. Why? The primary role of the hamstrings is a knee flexor, not a hip extensor. Your glute complex works as your primary hip extensor. So all those exercises that do not involve active flexion of the knee are not going to actively protect the integrity of that joint.
I wouldn't count deadlifts as a hamstring movement because they involve the quads actively extending the knee, and the hip movement is glute driven; it's similar in biomechanics to a squat, with more hamstring, but it still involves knee extension under a considerable load.

If we agree to disagree about deads, I count 18 total sets for quads, and 14 for hams, with almost all them (all but 3 sets of lying leg curls) being hip extension movements, not knee flexion.

Do you understand the role the hamstrings play in knee health and stability, particularly the ACL? -3X
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FiremanSi private msg quote post Address this user
^^^NEED... To.. GIVE... More... REPS !!!
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The Dark
Knight
eknight private msg quote post Address this user
@FiremanSi lol -3X
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swollenscott private msg quote post Address this user
Are you familiar with Bret Contreras aka the glut guy? His EMG based study showed hamstrings to be a larger contributor than glutes for the conventional deadlift. Also suggests that with most if not all hip extension hamstrings are a large contributor (glutes more so inner to end range aka my thrusters). Plus as I need more booty I'm keeping in the hip thrusters haha. Sets adjusted as follows. 1:1. Muscle time

Power
Deadlift 5set
Squat machine 4 set
Leg ext 3 set
Lying curl 4 set
Hip thrusts 4 set
Calf 5 set

Hyper
Deadlift 6x3
Hack squat 3 set quad
High Leg press 3 set quad/ham
Leg ext 3 set quad
Good mornings 3 sets ham/glut
Lying curls 3 sets ham
Seated curls 3 sets ham
Standing calf 3 set
Seated calf 3 set
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The Dark
Knight
eknight private msg quote post Address this user
You seriously don't understand the anatomy at all do you? I wasn't suggesting you drop the current ham/glute movements, I was suggesting that you add some more curls (and possibly drop the extensions altogether).

Have a read, you might learn a bit:

The knee is a biaxial joint allowing flexion and extension in the sagittal plane, but also some internal and external rotation in the horizontal plane. The tibia and fibula are not directly articulating on the femur, so what prevents hyperextension, anterior & posterior translation of the lower leg, or excessive varus or valgus? A few things- dynamic stabilization of antagonist muscles, and the 4 main ligaments of the knee- the two external (MCL and LCL) and the two internal (ACL & PCL).

So what causes the knee to extend? Primarily, the four muscles of the quads: the Vastus medialis, lateralis, intermedius- which run from the femur to tibial tuberosity; and the Rectus femoris, which runs fro the anterior-inferior iliac spine to tibial tuberosity.

Any time that the quads work to extend the knee, they do so by pulling the tibia forward. This is called anterior translation. If the ACL wasn't inside the knee, the tibia would literally move forward away from the patella and rest of the knee joint. That's the primary function of the ACL- limiting anterior tibial translation.

So, how do we screw that up, training for looks or the "pump" instead of training our bodies the way they're supposed to be trained? We do tons of squats, leg presses, lunges, and (*shudders*) worthless leg extensions (more on those in a bit). Then, as an afterthought, we do a little bit of hamstring work, and call it a day.

This is a recipe for knee problems of the ultimate degree. Dominant quadriceps activation that is not offset by appropriate hamstrings activation will create anterior tibial translation and increase ACL loading. The ACL can only handle so much stress before it ruptures- partially, fully, or with a tibial alvulsion.

Because of this, in any program, adequate direct hamstring work is a must. It should be comparable in volume to quad-dominant work.

When working the hamstrings, deadlifts are not enough. If you look at the three muscles that make up the hams- the semitendinosus and semimembranosus originate on the ischial tuberosity and attach to the tibia, while the Biceps femoris long head originates on the ischial tuberosity and attaches to the fibula and the short head originates on the femur and attaches to the fibula. Got all that? What it means is that while two of the three muscles of the hamstrings are responsible for hip extension (ie, deadlifts), the other one, is more active in knee flexion. Any hamstring work that does not involve some sort of leg curls, is not only incomplete, but not sufficient to offset quad development.

One last thing- about leg extensions. They're functionally worthless. For starters, almost nothing that the lower body does in real life is an open kinetic chain movement, but it goes beyond that. Remember the RF originates on the hip? Well there's a principle in kinesiology called Active Insufficiency. Active insufficiency refers to over-shortening of a muscle that crosses two joints, and isn't able to adequately do it's work at either end because of this over-shortening. When hip is flexed (ie, you're sitting there in the leg extension machine), the RF is actively insufficient and unable to properly extend the knee. So, not only are extensions open kinetic chain, they're also not optimal from a hypertrophy perspective of the quads. Lastly, when you're sitting there extending, the knee is under much more stress than it needs to be for two reasons- first, the force on the knee is shear from a weight placed at the most distal portion of the lower extremity, causing a ton of torque to the knee (not compressive force, as in a squat or leg press); second, because the hamstrings are completely removed from the movement, anterior translation of the tibia is occurring with nothing to counter-balance it. -3X
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Trev182 private msg quote post Address this user
Knowledge BOMBED.
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ErickFromOmaha private msg quote post Address this user

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Scotian private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trev182
Knowledge BOMBED.
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swollenscott private msg quote post Address this user
I have hamstring work listed in all ranges of hip angles and therefore all heads are hit. Reread the program.

Knee flex- 10 sets
(Curls seated and lying)
Ham/glut dom- 17 sets
(hip thrust,DL, GMs)

Knee isolated ext- 6 sets
(Leg exts)
Quad dom- 10 sets
(Squat, heck squat, leg press)

That's 10 ham ISO to 6 quad ISO moves. That's 17 ham/glut dominant exs compared to 10 quad dominant ones.

Maybe I'll drop in some glut ham raises for some more knee flex work haha.

For a note on the topic I avoid end range quads for leg exts, I use it purely through midrange to squeeze end engorge with blood. Evidence based or not flushing and engorment sets at the end of a bodypart have worked well for me in te past so I'll continue it. As the goal is hypertrophy and not to be a small strong guy I see nothing wrong with a little variation and volume.
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The Dark
Knight
eknight private msg quote post Address this user
Alright, not going to argue this with you any longer. You're set-up is not optimal. Deads incorporate too much quad to be considered primarily a hamstring movement. They're your knees, though so have fun with that. Effective and optimal are vastly different things.

I have no idea why you mentioned angles, variation, of volume, but if you believe that changing the angle a movement is done in somehow works a different area in the muscle you're mistaken. I guess you do incline presses with the belief that they hit a different portion of the chest more than a flat bench press as well? Likewise, regarding volume, more isn't always better. Once you've reached the ceiling to the amount of muscle protein synthesis that your body can achieve, adding more volume will not create growth, it will only increase muscular endurance. Training volume isn't the rate-limiting factor for growth, MPS is.

Why did you bother asking for advice if you weren't going to take it??? -3X
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swollenscott private msg quote post Address this user
Horses for courses I guess. I'll consider what you've said. I ask for advice not to follow it blindly but so that I can see another way of doing things. I don't mean to come across as argumentative I just try to understand things. Thanks for the input though - it is appreciated.
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swollenscott private msg quote post Address this user
Ps I love dem inclines. Also the reverse grip bench. Puts slabs on the clavicles
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FiremanSi private msg quote post Address this user
@swollenscott U mean suicide bench. haha.
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The Dark
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eknight private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by swollenscott
Ps I love dem inclines. Also the reverse grip bench. Puts slabs on the clavicles


Hoping you're not serious about the inclines. Agree with reverse grip. -3X
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swollenscott private msg quote post Address this user
"Why so serious" haha. Probably how the joker got those scars.
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swollenscott private msg quote post Address this user
Also whilst on movie topics just watched "Pain and Gain." Damn Marky Mark
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ErickFromOmaha private msg quote post Address this user
U likey marky mark eh
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swollenscott private msg quote post Address this user
Just the gainz. Although he's usually in good shape. Dwayne Johnson though has gone super saiyan. Made Van Diesel look small in fast and furious 6.
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ErickFromOmaha private msg quote post Address this user
Yea vin diesel looked pathetic
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340762 29 29
destitute