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omarisuf explain about some chest myth!14299

golagola private msg quote post Address this user
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pandasashi private msg quote post Address this user
what a clown...
origin is either at the sternum or clavicle based on genetics? really? lol
someone should tell this goof to stop this nonsense and go look at some studies..
diversity is key? also wrong..
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eingold private msg quote post Address this user
Love this guy strong dude
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Outwork_08 private msg quote post Address this user
I saw this video and with all the upper chest arguments that have floated around here I considered posting it but decided not to re-open that can of worms, looks like you decided to though haha
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Swift private msg quote post Address this user
I think Omar is correct in what he's saying. That the origin and insertion points are genetic to the point that it can determine how your chest will look and take shape.
The upper chest he is saying that yes the chest is basically one muscle, and while you can't make the top contract without the bottom in isolation, you can put a greater emphasis on making the muscle fibers in the top of the chest contract more.
Because of the angle the incline chest press puts you at, it requires the fibers on the upper portion of your chest to contract and shorten, more so than if it was flat or decline, while the rest of the chest is still also contracted
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brian12 private msg quote post Address this user
I agree with @Swift
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The Dark
Knight
eknight private msg quote post Address this user
For shame... -3X
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Johanna private msg quote post Address this user
The more I think about it, the more my mind flips on me.

The pectoralis major, in fact, has 3 places of origin (sternum, clavicle, oblique fascia), but 1 insertion. This is obviously very different from say the lateral head of the biceps brachii where it has 1 origin, 1 insertion, end of story. It has one plane of movement and obviously cannot have upper/lower emphasis.

The pec major is absolutely not divided into upper and lower portions. But it has 3 origins, so the more I think about it, the more I am led to believe you can put emphasis on the superior/inferior portion of the muscle based on the movement/angle of the insertion, the humerus.

This is all speculation of course.
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The Dark
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eknight private msg quote post Address this user
Both portions share a common innervation from the medial pectoral nerve and point of insertion, though. Because of that, there's no way to create humeral movement and not have nearly identical contraction of the muscle as a whole by increasing the angle. Consider this- if the humerus moves, and both portions of Pec major are attached in the exact same spot, how would you have one contract more- or one slacken more- than the other? You couldn't. I posted several pieces of EMG data that demonstrated this in the past. -3X
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Johanna private msg quote post Address this user
@eknight Yes I will stick to your informed way of thinking. And I can say that I do because I only do flat bench
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pandasashi private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swift
I think Omar is correct in what he's saying. That the origin and insertion points are genetic to the point that it can determine how your chest will look and take shape.
The upper chest he is saying that yes the chest is basically one muscle, and while you can't make the top contract without the bottom in isolation, you can put a greater emphasis on making the muscle fibers in the top of the chest contract more.
Because of the angle the incline chest press puts you at, it requires the fibers on the upper portion of your chest to contract and shorten, more so than if it was flat or decline, while the rest of the chest is still also contracted

complete contradiction right there... emg results don't lie. I donno why people are so stubborn to prove the disproven..
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Swift private msg quote post Address this user
How is that a contradiction? All I'm saying is that while the chest muscle either contracts or doesn't contract, it is possible for certain fibers in portions of the muscle to contract to a slightly greater degree.
I am agreeing that you cannot isolate the upper chest or that the upper middle and lower portion of the chest are separate muscles, because they aren't.
But think about it, when the arms at an incline during the incline press, the fibers at the top of the chest are in a more domination position than the fibers at the lower portion of the chest.
Am I saying the lower portion isn't doing any work? No, the entire chest contracts together, but, depending on the angle, will put a slightly different emphasis on different portions of the chest.
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brian12 private msg quote post Address this user
EMG tests don't lie. I agree with Swift.

We all know you cant isolate one part of the chest, but you can put slightly more emphasis on an area.

clickable text
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Kansas___Boyyyyy private msg quote post Address this user
but but flat bench...
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pandasashi private msg quote post Address this user
isolate and putting more emphasis is the same thing... if the fibers in the upper portion of the pec were activated more during incline, that would come up in the emg tests. it doesn't, meaning you cant "put more emphasis" or "isolate" or "contract the upper part more than the rest"...all those mean the same thing and are impossible.
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The Dark
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eknight private msg quote post Address this user
@brian12 that link isn't consistent with the bulk of research showing that this isn't possible. And even that piece shows that the best mean activation of the "upper" chest comes from midline movements, not incline movements.

@Swift the fibers of the clavicular head are not in a more "dominant" position as the angle of inclination increases. There is no more dominant or less dominant position for a muscle- a muscle is composed of motor units, either contract or relax, no in between- they either completely contractor don't contract at all. I'm not sure why people insist on this myth being true. It simply isn't. -3X
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Swift private msg quote post Address this user
@pandasashi to isolate would be to work alone, apart from the rest. To emphasize would mean that the rest of the muscle works but the upper portion works more.

@eknight, you are by far a way smarter, knowledgable person than I am, and I don't mean to disrespect you by arguing my opinion, but I don't believe that the incline movements don't put a greater emphasis on those fibers.
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golagola private msg quote post Address this user
@eknight

does shoulder press work the chest too ?
after day (back and shoulder) i feel like my chest has worked too ,even worked hard .
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Swift private msg quote post Address this user
Here's a link to a video that explains what I'm saying better than I am, easier to show than explain

http://youtu.be/20M6J-J7Xaw
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The Dark
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eknight private msg quote post Address this user
@Swift then explain to me how the EMG data I provided all came to the same conclusion. Can you also explain how changing the angle of inclination somehow causes the fibers to be more active when 1) there's only ONE point of insertion on the humerus, and 2) the medial nerve is firing, causing the entire motor unit to contract in every fiber of the entire chest.

It's fine for you to believe what you want, but very basic general anatomy knowledge should show you that your belief is incorrect.

Edit to add- the video is simply incorrect. His argument that you get maximum results only by doing a movement in the same direction of the muscle fibers is not entirely true. Look at the quads:



The best (and only) quad developers are movements that extend the knee- squats, lunges, leg presses, even extensions work the quads. How is that possible since the fibers don't run straight up and down? According to Youtube guy, you can't get your quads to grow using any of those exercises, since the movement being used isn't in line with the fibers! -3X
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Trev182 private msg quote post Address this user
LOL at people still arguing about this.
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golagola private msg quote post Address this user
@eknight

can u answer my questioin ?

"does shoulder press work the chest too ?
after (back and shoulder) i feel like my chest has worked too "?
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The Dark
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eknight private msg quote post Address this user
@golagola you've used up the number of questions I'm answering for you. You never take what I say anyway, and end up derailing every thread you post in. Look it up. -3X
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Trev182 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by eknight
@golagola you've used up the number of questions I'm answering for you. You never take what I say anyway, and end up derailing every thread you post in. Look it up. -3X


hahahaha
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bslo private msg quote post Address this user
Then why does my upper chest feel more pumped up after incline than flat or decline...........
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haole private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by golagola
@eknight

does shoulder press work the chest too ?
after day (back and shoulder) i feel like my chest has worked too ,even worked hard .


Chest can be secondary when doing should press. Your form might be off too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bslo
Then why does my upper chest feel more pumped up after incline than flat or decline...........


Do you do upper chest more than flat or decline? If you do you should try changing to flat or declines and see what happens after a month or two.
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bslo private msg quote post Address this user
@haole no i dont i do primarily flat bb bench press and then do incline hammer strength or dbs for accessory work. I agree that flat bench is without a doubt the best way to build a big chest and i create my workour around that i cannot deny that if i start my chest workout with incline for shits and giggles then i will feel a pump more in my upper chest.
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The Dark
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eknight private msg quote post Address this user
Really? How exactly does one feel a pump in half of a muscle? When you do curls, do you ever feel a pump in just the portion of your biceps closest to the elbow? When you do chins do you ever feel a pump in just the lower portion of your lats?

The notion that you can feel a pump in only part of ONE muscle is the greatest bit of broscience I've seen in quite a while. -3X
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bslo private msg quote post Address this user
Im not saying that I only feel a pump in one part of the muscle but I def do feel bigger in the upper portion after incline. Im pretty sure im not the first person to ever lift weights that does feel this way. Not with chins but if I do say corner bar rows with a close grip depending on the angle I feel it more in the lower lats.
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The Dark
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eknight private msg quote post Address this user
What your feeling is a pump in the entire muscle. Your brain is interpreting it as something different. Neurological feedback is not a particularly good indicator of muscle fiber recruitment.

Gee, if only there was some way to objectively measure where and how hard the fibers of a muscle contract under different circumstances...

http://www.strengthandconditioningresearch.com/2013/04/03/bench-press-emg-activity/

-3X
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