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Push/Pull/Legs Help14190

oceanair private msg quote post Address this user
I posted about this in my log last night, but I'll post here too. Finally watched Ogus's videos on his legs/push/pull routine. I think I have a much better grasp of this program. Now I just have to customize it for myself. Ogus's routine had so much detail in it since he had a lot of diff workouts that he switched around, like an A, B, and C workout, plus an A and B workout for each workout. Anyway, I just have to figure out what I want to do. This is what I came up with so far. I prefer doing push/pull/legs instead of legs first.

Push:

Barbell Flat Bench Press
DB Incline Bench Press
Lateral Raises
Seated DB Military Press
DB Overhead Extension
Rope Push-Down


Pull:

Assisted Wide Grip Pull-Ups
Isolateral Machine one arm, superset with above, and lower
Cable Rows
Alternating DB Curls
Cable Curls
EZ Bar Curls

Legs (A Workout):
Back Squats
Romanian Deadlifts
Walking Lunges Lying Leg Curls
Seated Calf Raises

Legs (B Workout):
Goblet Squats
Romanian Deadlifts
Leg Extensions
Split Squars
Standing Calf Raises


So I will be creating other workouts for Push and Pull days too. So each would have A and B or A, B, and C. Please tell me your thoughts on what I posted. Did I do it correctly? I want to do 3 days on, 1 day off, repeat.

Sorry if this is a dumb question, but would it start on Sunday or Monday? Like let's say this next week I want to start. Which day do I begin the program? It seems most people do it on Monday, but I'm not sure? So would Sunday be off just to start? I really have no clue lol.

Also, I'm gonna go the hypertrophy route like Matt, with 8-12 reps, 4-5 sets.
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nine0seven private msg quote post Address this user
I would drop 2 of the curls & add 2 more back lifts. 4-6 sets of biceps should be plenty especially since you'll be elevating protein synthesis twice a week. I'd also drop the leg extensions & add lunges or even leg press.

It doesn't really matter when you start if you look at the calendar in a 7 day rotation instead of "Monday through Friday" scheme like most Americans.

Just my $.02 though..
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oceanair private msg quote post Address this user
i'm not sure i'm comfy dropping the curls lol. cuz i only have 2 bicep exercises in there. so i think 1 would be good at least. i have walking lunges in there. i made a typo and didn't put a space between those and lying leg curls. i could drop the leg extensions though like you said and add leg press.

thank you.

also, i meant to call the isolateral machine the isolateral lat pull-down machine. not sure if its the same lol.

that's true. guess i could start on sunday or monday. thank you!

i will be taking a week off to rest before i start this program. my body really needs it. can't remember the last time i took a week off or had legit rest from the gym.
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nine0seven private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by oceanair
i'm not sure i'm comfy dropping the curls lol. cuz i only have 2 bicep exercises in there. so i think 1 would be good at least. i have walking lunges in there. i made a typo and didn't put a space between those and lying leg curls. i could drop the leg extensions though like you said and add leg press.

thank you.

also, i meant to call the isolateral machine the isolateral lat pull-down machine. not sure if its the same lol.

that's true. guess i could start on sunday or monday. thank you!

i will be taking a week off to rest before i start this program. my body really needs it. can't remember the last time i took a week off or had legit rest from the gym.


A week off is beneficial both physically & mentally so def enjoy it

Lol I should've been more clear on this but yes, keep at least one bicep curl in there! I think 3 curls with 4-5 sets is a bit much. Sorry for the confusion but glad I could help
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Trev182 private msg quote post Address this user
Check out my old log, not saying my ppl was amazing but i got solid gainzzzz off of it!
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TyrannosaurusFlex private msg quote post Address this user
Definitely drop the leg extensions.

Also, your horizontal push:pull ratio is 1:1 at the moment, most PTs recommend a 1:2 (in number of sets). It makes sense when you think about the size of the muscles relative to one another. I'd drop one curl exercise (two is plenty when you're hittinf bis twice a week) and add another horizontal pull, perhaps facepulls.

One last question: Why no regular deadlifts? (No criticism, just curiosity)

Other than that i think it looks good. I like the approach and look forward to seeing what you think about it.
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The Dark
Knight
eknight private msg quote post Address this user
I personally don't see the benefit in "A" days and "B" days, but that's just me. Your routine is too heavily geared toward the anterior with not enough posterior work to offset that. Keep in mind that no matter what your goals are, remaining functional and not creating imbalances is more important than gaining size or strength. -3X
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jonrivs49 private msg quote post Address this user
Once I do PPL and working back and bi, chest and tri on the same day I stick to doing only 1 exercise for arms of 3-5 sets. On bi I prefer not doing alternate curls instead curl it at the same time for continuous tension.
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oceanair private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by nine0seven
Lol I should've been more clear on this but yes, keep at least one bicep curl in there! I think 3 curls with 4-5 sets is a bit much. Sorry for the confusion but glad I could help

@nine0seven Ya that makes sense. Thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trev182
Check out my old log, not saying my ppl was amazing but i got solid gainzzzz off of it!

@Trev182 I will check it out for ideas, thanks man.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TyrannosaurusFlex
Definitely drop the leg extensions.

Also, your horizontal push:pull ratio is 1:1 at the moment, most PTs recommend a 1:2 (in number of sets). It makes sense when you think about the size of the muscles relative to one another. I'd drop one curl exercise (two is plenty when you're hittinf bis twice a week) and add another horizontal pull, perhaps facepulls.

One last question: Why no regular deadlifts? (No criticism, just curiosity)

Other than that i think it looks good. I like the approach and look forward to seeing what you think about it.

@TyrannosaurusFlex I have no clue what 1:1 and 1:2 ratios are. Can you or someone else please explain?

I'll keep it at 2 bicep exercises then. but how many back should I do? like 3 back, 2 bis, and then the facepulls?

I always enjoyed leg extensions personally. but perhaps I'll drop them. I've never done a conventional deadlift lol. I always do romanian. I don't see the need to do more than that 1 personally.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eknight
I personally don't see the benefit in "A" days and "B" days, but that's just me. Your routine is too heavily geared toward the anterior with not enough posterior work to offset that. Keep in mind that no matter what your goals are, remaining functional and not creating imbalances is more important than gaining size or strength. -3X

@eknight I'm doing the A and B days just to mix it up, and also so I can hit other areas of the muscle. Are you referring to my leg days when you say too much anterior? Like more hamstring exercises, plus rear delt exercises? Could you please be more specific? I want to correct it, just not sure what you mean. Sorry if I sound like a noob lol.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jonrivs49
Once I do PPL and working back and bi, chest and tri on the same day I stick to doing only 1 exercise for arms of 3-5 sets. On bi I prefer not doing alternate curls instead curl it at the same time for continuous tension.

@jonrivs49 Ya I think that's just a preference. I like alternating curls and also both arms. Just depends on my mood. or both if I do 2 arm exercises.


Thanks for the info everyone! Please reply whenever you can so I can make the necessary modifications. I appreciate all your help, as always.
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The Dark
Knight
eknight private msg quote post Address this user
You have 4 direct pushing movements and 3 pulling. That's what is being mentioned with the 2:1 ratio. Ideally for shoulder health, you'd like to have your volume be 2:1 pull to push- so if you're doing 20 total sets of push, you'd be looking at 40 total pull. You simply don't need- either functionally or for hypertrophy- as many pushing sets as people believe.

For your legs, I'd try to get at least one set of hams for every quad. As you have it now it's really pretty lopsided with almost all quad work and little hams. Don't forget that deads do not hit the entire hamstring complex- movements that do not include knee flexion do not adequately hit the biceps femoris because the short head does not cross the hip, so hip extension movements alone are not going to cut it. -3X
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oceanair private msg quote post Address this user
@eknight are you talking in the push workout? because i listed 6 pull exercises for pull days. sorry, I'm confused.

i'll add more hamstring exercises then. that's true, about the deadlifts. thanks.
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oceanair private msg quote post Address this user
Does this look better for Leg days? I added more hamstring.

Legs (A Workout):
Back Squats
Walking Lunges
Romanian Deadlifts
Swiss Ball Hamstring Curls
Lying Leg Curls
Seated Calf Raises

Legs (B Workout):
Goblet Squats
Leg Press
Romanian Deadlifts
Seated Leg Curls
Bulgarian Split Squats
Standing Calf Raises
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The Dark
Knight
eknight private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by oceanair
@eknight are you talking in the push workout? because i listed 6 pull exercises for pull days. sorry, I'm confused.

i'll add more hamstring exercises then. that's true, about the deadlifts. thanks.


Curls don't count, lol. And you have more biceps work than triceps. I'd switch that. I like your new leg days. -3X
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oceanair private msg quote post Address this user
@eknight Why do curls not count? Should my pull days be more back than bicep? and as far as triceps go, 3 triceps and 2 biceps? Pull would be 3 or 4 back and 2 bicep.

I'm glad you approve of my leg days now, but not 100% sure I want the split squats in there cuz they suck. But we'll see.
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The Dark
Knight
eknight private msg quote post Address this user
I should have been clearer- curls do not count to move the shoulder complex in a way to offset your pressing movements. When I ran PPL, this was my set-up:

L:
Squats- 135x10/225x5/275x5/3x295x5
Lying Leg curl- 110x5/3x120x5/130x5
Barbell Calf Raises- 225x5/4x315x5
Cable crunches- 3x150x12

P:
Deads- 135x8/225x5/275x5/295x5/295x4
Weighted Chins- 8xBW/4x5x45
Barbell Rows- 5x185x5
DB shrugs- 3x90x8
Barbell curls-75x10/2x80x8

P:
DB bench: 2x90x5/100x5
Smith Overhead press: 3x135x5
Close Grip Bench: 225x5/2x245x5
DB lateral raises: 20x12/2x25x8
DB triceps extension: 3x65x8

See how many more movements hit my back vs my front? -3X
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oceanair private msg quote post Address this user
@eknight oh ok. ya I see that. Why so little leg exercises? It's like 2 legs, calf, then abs.

Would this be better?

Push:

Barbell Flat Bench Press
Reverse Dips on Machine
Lateral Raises
Seated DB Military Press
DB Overhead Extension
Rope Push-Down


Pull:

Assisted Wide Grip Pull-Ups
One Arm Isolateral Lat Pull-Down
Cable Rows
Alternating DB Curls
Barbell Rows
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oceanair private msg quote post Address this user
6 push and 5 pull. Or should they both be 5? Sorry I'm annoying lol. I appreciate your help
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The Dark
Knight
eknight private msg quote post Address this user
2:1! You really need more pull than push. Shoulder health and stability dictate this. I had 9 pressing sets and 13 pulling/rowing sets, plus 5 sets of deads which put the shoulders into extension.

Likewise, squatting 5x5 and doing deads 5x5 twice a week is plenty of leg work. IMO- and this is just me- PPL is more effective the simpler and more streamlined it is. Once you start adding too many other movements, it's not really a good PPL routine anymore. It's some sort of PPL-hypertrophy hybrid. -3X
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Frostshock private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by oceanair
6 push and 5 pull. Or should they both be 5?


You could have 6 push/5 pull Exercises so long as the sets even out to be 2:1, so if you're doing 6 Push @ 13 sets(3 sets major compound 2 sets accessories)- You could be doing 5 Pull @ 26 sets (Something like 6 sets of deads, 5 sets for 4 pulling/rowing, kinda harsh)

Quote:
Originally Posted by eknight
I had 9 pressing sets and 13 pulling/rowing sets, plus 5 sets of deads which put the shoulders into extension.

Much easier & still balanced.
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oceanair private msg quote post Address this user
@eknight I was going for hypertrophy though. I'll look over all this later. At work, crazy day. Lol thanks Mr. Knight

@Frostshock didn't even consider accessories stuff. so confused. I'll figure it out. Thanks.
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oceanair private msg quote post Address this user
@eknight i might just pm you on my days off because this shit is too confusing for me lol.
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The Dark
Knight
eknight private msg quote post Address this user
That's cool. -3X
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oceanair private msg quote post Address this user
i got my p/p/l split down thanks to @eknight. and also thanks to you guys on here. i'll be starting on sunday. might be tracking macros again as well. haven't decided if i want to do that yet or just continue trying to "eat clean", you know with windex on all my food :p jk.

i'm stoked. and it's actually very hard for me to relax. i was browsing through workout clothes today and it made me want to hit the gym. it's like i have to hide my new nikes from myself cuz i'm always thinking about training. but no gym till sunday.
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nine0seven private msg quote post Address this user
@oceanair what u gonna do until Sunday? Rest?
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oceanair private msg quote post Address this user
@nine0seven Yup. I committed to a week off. I need the rest.
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