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I am new and would like some advice please!!13640

trose619 private msg quote post Address this user
Hello, I currently work out twice a day for around an hour each time, about 11 hours apart. I work a 12 hour shift job that allows me an hour to work out everyday which helps out. My first workout of the day I do more endurance and calesthenic workouts such as mium to high weight with super circuits, at least 3 different super circuits and hit only one muscle group for the first workout. The second workout I am actually doing it with someone so I can put up more weight safely and try using that time to bulk but its a little harder since I'm usually already exhausted from working 12 hours but I still push my hardest. When I work out the first time I don't take rests except to set up for the next circuit or when I absolutely have to. I also work out every day twice a day(my body is healing remarkably fast so no real soreness).

Before my first workout I take "con-cret creatine" mixed with "1MR" and after that workout I usually have an omlet with mushrooms, ham, bacon, peppers, onions and cheese along with a milk, an "Atkins" protein bar and sometimes a bowl of cereal(I eat the healthiest cereal available at the time). Before my second workout I don't have a pre-workout(I used to and I found it to cause over spring effects on me so I stopped). but after my workout I have a wheat bread sandwhich with 3 slices of oscar mayer smoked turkey, honey ham, 1 slice bologna and 2 slice velvetta cheese along with another protein bar with milk and "ON Platinium Hydro Builder". I just picked up some "ON Superior Amino 2222 Tabs" but I don't know how often I should take them.

My nutritional choices are highly limited so I believe in doing the best I can on that, I can not discuss why its so restricted sorry. I am aiming to get a bigger, but not huge, and wanna keep or gain definition. I have never worked out at a gym ever in my life and just started around 3 months ago. I started the 2 workouts a day routine about a month ago and liking the results, but I'm very unknowledgable even with all the research I have done so any advice would be greatly opriciated. I started off at 170 lbs and now sit at 159.6, I'd like to think that was burned fat and gained muscle but I don't know for sure. I have noticed a considerable strength change but still wanna get stronger. Currently my lats and tricepts are the strongest muscles on my body (confused) I work out bicept more than I work out tricepts, am I doing something wrong?
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Method private msg quote post Address this user
It sounds like you are over-training especially if you're looking to bulk. The amount of calories you're burning from two a days is going to limit growth unless your accounting for with access calories. I think your ideal of gaining muscle mass and definition are unrealistic. You can either Bulk (abandoning definition) or slow bulk (trying to maintain some definition). Once you've achieved your desired size, you can cut for the definition. Also, on a bulk, I don't see a need for a lot of circuit or cardio training...you might want to work some in just for cardiovascular health.

I hate correcting spelling but its triceps and biceps. Since you're into bodybuilding these are nouns your probably going to use often so better to make the correction now.
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6Rocky9 private msg quote post Address this user
agreed with Method, you are overtraining pal... I would love to work out 3 times a day or twice a day but what's the point if i won't make any gains, you shoul limit yourself with a single workout a day
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Frostshock private msg quote post Address this user
Care to post a template or example of a usual workout for you? Also do you only eat those 2 meals a day or do you snack in the 12 hours that you work? Diet and rest are 2 of the biggest factors to making gains, not even the biggest guys on here work out every day.

Do you know your macros at all?

I would love it if my lats were my strongest point lol.

The tricep/bicep conundrum is quite simple... The biceps are a muscle with two(bi) heads - Triceps are a muscle with three(tri) heads, hence the muscle with more mass should be more powerful. Just as I'm sure that your Quadraceps are stronger than your triceps, bigger(much bigger) muscles move more weight.
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FiremanSi private msg quote post Address this user
Not eating enough.. training too much.
Too highly focused on supplements not enough on food.

Triceps probably developing through all teh pressing ur most likely doing.
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trose619 private msg quote post Address this user
Ok thank you to both of you for your responses. The problem is that when I work out and have the energy to really push out heavy weight I have no one to spot me so to play it safe I can't pack on to much weight. Thank you for the spelling correction I don't take it to heart. What type of workout routine would you guys recommend then to build mass? My goal is at least a 50 inch shoulders (currently sitting at 45 5/8) but keeping my waist around 30/31in) One either question. Do either of you have any experience with any of the supplements I am taking and if so what are your inputs towards them?
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trose619 private msg quote post Address this user
Frost a usual workout for example that I did on the 26th was
Close Grip Lat Pulldown 120x10x4
V-Bar Lat Pulldown 160x10x3
Shotgun Rows 80x10x3
Straight arm pulldown 80x10x3
Side arm jammers 45x10x3
Seated barbell mil press 115x10x4
Standing alternating dumbbell press 12.5kgx10x5
Standing (palms in) one arm press 20x10x3
Front barbell raise 55x10x4

Fireman thank you for your input but i also do take times off when i dont use anything additional, such as the last 3 days i stopped using everything to let my body self regulate back to normal and i just started the protein shake today and only purchased the vitamins.. ps i dont know how often i should take the vitamins...any hints?
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FiremanSi private msg quote post Address this user
@trose619 What kind of vitamins ??

If:

Multivit-
Daily

Fish oil -
4capsules daily (generally dependant on strength of each capsule)

How long u working out ??

I used to do gym twice daily bro... WASTE OF MY TIME.. couldn't get in enough cals daily to even hit Cutting cals.

4-5times/week TOTAL is PLENTY.

if ur in the gym:

0-6months = Fulll body workout
6-18months = Stength program
18months on = Open to interpretation.
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trose619 private msg quote post Address this user
Oh I almost forgot frost, what are macros? And I do snack in between either bowls of cereal, wheat thins low fat or giant scoops of peanut butter mainly and thank you for explaining the science behind bi and tri for me much oppriciated
Fireman I unfortunately cannot take fish oil due to the fact that I am allergic to seafood :-/ I usually hit the gym about an hour each time and really? Even if you are constantly shocking the muscles it doesn't do much? And when you say full body do you mean each workout session to do full body or to work the whole body but piece by piece?
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FiremanSi private msg quote post Address this user
Yeah man full body workout example:

Squat
Deadlift
Bench
Pull Up
Row
Shoulder press

DONE.
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trose619 private msg quote post Address this user
Ah alright thanks and jw so I can apply it mentaliy better. Can you explain to a noob why that is a beneficial way to workout? Sorry for so many stupid questions
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Method private msg quote post Address this user
Trose - your pretty jacked for not knowing what macros are and having an odd routine...genes. Macros are short for macronutrients i.e. Protein, Carbohydrates and Fat. You'll hear a lot of people talking about what ratio you should eat these in to meet your caloric needs. Stay on the board and you'll lean a lot and get scary.
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Frostshock private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Method
Trose - your pretty jacked for not knowing what macros are and having an odd routine...genes.

Haha my thoughts exactly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Method
Macros are short for macronutrients i.e. Protein, Carbohydrates and Fat.

This. Here's a how to on how to calculate it out for you:
http://forum.simplyshredded.com/topic/12308/a-how-to-calculating-your-macros/
There's no cookie cutter macro split that works for everyone, all you have to do is some simple math to find yours out though.

A really easy way to track macros is:
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/
It will try to calc your macros out for you, that measurement is for sedentary people. After you do the math from the guide above you can manually enter your caloric needs and macro split.

Don't worry about the fish oil, it helps some but not completely necessary. I agree on the Multi-vitamin and would also suggest creatine monohydrate. Again not necessary, but they're cheap and they help a little bit. Saw that you're taking BCAA caps, unless you're hitting the gym on an empty stomach first thing in the morning they aren't really necessary.

As for training routines, I really like these for new guys:
Stronglifts 5x5 (My personal fave)
Starting strength

Get your diet in check, start a routine and get plenty of sleep - Gainz will be as good as made.
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Frostshock private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by trose619
Can you explain to a noob why that is a beneficial way to workout?

A tried and true program is the best way to prevent muscular imbalances as well as having a community of people that have done the same thing with differing results depending on how they did it.

Full body is to build a moderate amount of strength and muscle. You'll want a stable base for when you start intermediate strength programs. Once you get more advanced you can add isolation or accessory exercises, if you're just starting to work out there's no real way to know which body parts are lagging.

Also 5x5 programs that focus on the compounds are extremely beneficial because the big 3 (or 4 if you count OHP) are the backbone of almost every workout routine made by professionals. Most of the time people do accessory work JUST to improve one of their lagging compounds.

Tons of reasons but that's all I can think of. I'm half asleep and at work so I'm kinda rushing here =P
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trose619 private msg quote post Address this user
Fireman thank you for the compliment, much oppriciated. And scary as in the good way? Haha.

Frost thank you so much for the links I'll check them out immediately and I'll post my findings if you'd like. What does "sedentary people" mean? Sorry I'm not stupid but English/grammer isn't my strong suit lol. Ah ok about the fish oil and what is the difference between the "con-cret creatine" I take now and creatine monohydrates? I usually try and eat a little something when I wake up cause its 4 hours of work before our lunch/workout break so its not a completely empty stomach but it kinda is I think? The bottle says to take one serving (2 tablets) when you first wake up and before and after working out??? I definitely font plan on taking that many of those horse pills haha. And tomorrow night (its 2am here :-/) I'll do try out that workout and let you know what I think of it ok. Thanks for all the help again guys much oppriciated. What is OHP? And oh damn I'm sorry to hear that but thank you so much for taking your time to help me out.
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Frostshock private msg quote post Address this user
Its no problem dude
Quote:
Originally Posted by trose619
What does \"sedentary people\" mean?

People that don't lift/workout on a regular basis.

Quote:
Originally Posted by trose619
\"con-cret creatine\" I take now and creatine monohydrates?

Con-cret is Creatine HCL, Creatine monohydrate isn't a brand but an ingredient. They're both the same damn thing, but Con-cret costs $30 for a 1-2 month supply and Creatine Monohydrate is $16-20 for a 1 year supply.

Quote:
Originally Posted by trose619
I usually try and eat a little something when I wake up cause its 4 hours of work before our lunch/workout break so its not a completely empty stomach but it kinda is I think?

If you snack or eat something before you workout you'll be fine. Just keep taking them and don't re-order anymore unless you plan on training first thing after you wake up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by trose619
I\'ll do try out that workout and let you know what I think of it ok. Thanks for all the help again guys much oppriciated. What is OHP?

Make sure you look up the proper form for all of the workouts! OHP = Over Head Press
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trose619 private msg quote post Address this user
Oh damn haha ya I'm definitely gonna look for creatine monohydrate haha. Ya I'd like to work out right after waking up but I literally live at work no joke so ya :-/. Ah ok about OHP and ok definitely will do. The last thing I wanna do is get hurt and lose out on the gains I've made haha. And my macros are:
Age 21
Height 70
Weight 160
Daily carbs: 3437 cals
Carbs: 430 cals
Protein: 512 cals
Fats: 277 cals
Thank you again.
Oh yes I have read around and I don't remember where I've found it but supposably the body can't break down more than something like 30-40g of protein an hour so anything else you take is literally pissed away or stored as fat...fact or myth?
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Frostshock private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by trose619
Daily carbs: 3437 cals
Carbs: 430 cals
Protein: 512 cals
Fats: 277 cals


Seems a bit off, if I'm reading that correctly you're eating either 1219 total cals or if that's in grams it's well over 3437 cals daily?
Quote:
Originally Posted by trose619
Oh yes I have read around and I don\'t remember where I\'ve found it but supposably the body can\'t break down more than something like 30-40g of protein an hour so anything else you take is literally pissed away or stored as fat...fact or myth?

I know there's a thread or 2 on here that goes really in depth with this. Half and half correct? Muscle protein synthesis is a question better answered by @eknight or @eat2trainn247 but from what I can remember-
Protein that your body doesn't use gets converted into carbohydrates of some sort? (Someone please correct me if I'm wrong)

The way to gain/store fat is to be in a caloric surplus - or eating above your maintenance calories.
To lose fat you will want to be in a caloric deficit - or eating below your maintenance calories.

The benefit of being in a surplus is the fact that you will also gain muscle. The muscle-to-fat ratio(relationship or difference) that you'll gain depends on how slowly you bulk.
The same could be said in reverse about cutting.
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trose619 private msg quote post Address this user
I followed your link entered on the page "HTTPS://WWW.muscle and strength.com/tools/bmr-and-daily-calories-calculator.HTML" and chose the heavy selection(high activity, manual job, 2x exercise sports) that stuff entered in height/70in age/21 weight/160lbs gender/male and then it told me 3437 cals.

From that I used this formula to get those numbers:
Protein: (body weight x .8)=calories of protein
Carbs: (daily needed/2=half your calories)half calories/4=daily grams of carbs
Fat: (daily calories of protein+daily calories of carbs=daily calories used) (daily calories used needed-daily calories used)=daily calories of fat (daily calories of fat/9)=daily grams of fat.

So total cals from that site (without buljing or cutting) = 3437cals
Carbs=430g
Protein=512g
Fats=277g

And thank you for the hits I'll try and message them when I get a chance to thank you again for all your help
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Frostshock private msg quote post Address this user
Carbs are right, I think you accidentally converted protein from grams to cals. Protein for you should be from 138-160grams. Also you might have subtracted wrong for fats, I've got a range of 100-120grams

Carbs = 430g
Protein = 133-160g
Fats = 100-120g

You don't have to eat those macros EXACTLY, but within a reasonable range at least.

Good luck man, happy to help. If you start a workout log I'll be in for it.
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trose619 private msg quote post Address this user
I have actually started a log starting as of the 25th but I think I'm gonna restart with the routines recommended. And wow with the figures you gave me I must have rushed and messed up my cakculations
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trose619 private msg quote post Address this user
I just re-read it and it stated that formula equals cals of every thing where as the numbers you just gave me are in grams like I falsly stated. Suposably there is:
1 gram protein=4 cals
1 grams carbs=4 cals
1 gram fat=9 cals
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Frostshock private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by trose619
I just re-read it and it stated that formula equals cals of every thing where as the numbers you just gave me are in grams like I falsly stated. Suposably there is:
1 gram protein=4 cals
1 grams carbs=4 cals
1 gram fat=9 cals


Haha I figured, no worries bro. You can play around with the ranges once you get used to them too. For me I like to have my fats in a certain range or I'll feel bad the next morning whereas I know other people on here only feel like beasts with a higher fat ratio for the day.

You'll catch on pretty quickly
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trose619 private msg quote post Address this user
Haha ok. Well thank you once again :-) you've been a huge help :-) I've noticed my body does react more to what I eat and I had a treat one day and for like the following 3 days I was craving them but managed to resist thankfully haha. One more question if I could. I've noticed a dramatic increase in needs for snacking but I don't wanna over do it and counter my gains with putting more fatty fat on. Any tips for combating this? No I am not trying to be like anerexic or anything just trying to maintain my body with limited knowledge.
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mattd534 private msg quote post Address this user
@trose619 SS and other beginner programs are good but with your activity level you could maybe handle more volume maybe consider doing an upper/lower split like Lyle Mcdonalds generic bulk. Point is no matter what routine you do, you will get stronger and bigger if your in a calorie surplus
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trose619 private msg quote post Address this user
Ah ok thank you, but just curious I've heard upper/lower split before but never understood it...can you help me with that please?
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Frostshock private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by trose619
One more question if I could. I\'ve noticed a dramatic increase in needs for snacking but I don\'t wanna over do it and counter my gains with putting more fatty fat on. Any tips for combating this?

Yeah dude, now that you know your macros just remember this:
If it fits your macros, EAT THAT SHIT
Weight gain and weight loss is simply Calories in vs calories out. If you want to google the "Twinkie diet" there's a guy that lost 40lbs eating all hostess products (with 1 protein shake).

Point is, you'll be eating pretty clean and well just to hit your protein requirements. After that you'll want to keep your carbs above 50% and keep your fats above 20% but below 30%

Once you can do that, if you can fit some cookies in or WHATEVER you want in to your macros, track it and eat it dude.

I have days where I eat 6 meals of all "clean" food just because I can and have the time to or school days where I only have time for 3 meals, 2 being big ass smoothies and 1 is a whole pizza.
For that pizza day, I'll keep my macros the same as every other day and won't gain fat or anything like that. One pizza day I forgot a small portion of my lunch so the next day I LOST weight.

Try it for a week or two and weigh yourself every day. You'll be amazed how accurate it is if you actually eat what you log.

Quote:
Originally Posted by trose619
Ah ok thank you, but just curious I\'ve heard upper/lower split before but never understood it...can you help me with that please?

You can look in the "Tags" section on the left under "split advice" or "training programs", there's a ton of examples in there.
Basic premise of an upper lower split is working out your entire upper body one day and your entire lower body a different day.
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trose619 private msg quote post Address this user
Ah ok awesome :-) that just made me really happy actually. Just now I have to do my best to calculate everything. Its just hard because current such stances/situation dictates that my food choice selection is highly limited so I'll do with it what I can thanks a lot bro :-) and ah ok ya I've actually done that before and I had a real nice sweat fr it too. Made me feel really good
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mattd534 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by trose619
Ah ok thank you, but just curious I've heard upper/lower split before but never understood it...can you help me with that please?

So basically an upper/lower split would look something like this
Monday:
Lower Body
Barbell 
Squats: 3-4 sets x 6-8 reps /90 second rest between sets
Romanian Deadlifts: 3-4 sets x 6-8 reps /90 second rest between sets
Leg press: 2-3 sets x 10-12 reps /60-90 second rest between sets
Leg Curls: 2-3 sets x 10-12 reps /60 second rest between sets
Standing Calf Raises: 3-4 sets x 10-12 reps /60 second rest between sets
Unweighted Abs: 4 sets x 12-15 reps /60 second rest between sets

Tuesday: Upper Body
Bench Press: 3-4 sets x 6-8 reps /90 second rest between sets
Barbell Rows: 3-4 sets x 6-8 reps /90 second rest between sets
Incline Bench Press: 2-3 sets x 10-12 reps /60-90 second rest between sets
Pull Ups: 2-3 sets x 10-12 reps /60-90 second rest between sets
Skull Crushers: 2-3 sets x 12-15 reps /60 second rest between sets
Seated Ez Bar Curls: 2-3 sets x 12-15 reps /60 second rest between sets

Wednesday: Off

Thursday: Lower Body
Front Squats: 3-4 sets x 6-8 reps /90 seconds rest between sets
Deadlifts: 3-4 sets x 6-8 reps /90 second rest between sets
Barbell Lunges: 2-3 sets x 10-12 reps /60-90 second rest between sets
Leg Curls: 2-3 sets x 10-12 reps /60 second rest between sets
Seated Calf Raises: 3-4 sets x 10-12 reps /60 second rest between sets
Weighted Abs: 4 sets x 12-15 reps /60 second rest between sets

Friday: Upper Body
Bench Press: 3-4 sets x 6-8 reps /90 second rest between sets
One Arm Dumbbell Rows: 3-4 sets x 6-8 Reps /90 second rest between sets
Overhead Press: 2-3 sets x 10-12 reps /60-90 second rest between sets
Chin Ups: 2-3 sets x 10-12 reps /60-90 second rest between sets
Standing Tricep Cable Pressdown: 2-3 sets x 12-15 reps /60 second rest
Standing Dumbbell Bicep Curls: 2-3 sets x 12-15 reps /60 second rest
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trose619 private msg quote post Address this user
Ah ok so basically a jack of all trades work out. Now do you max out all thee targeted muscles when you do that? And what do you mean by "weighted abs" cause to me that can mean so many things. Also I don't take rests between sets unless I absolutely have to. Can anyone give me their input on that? I like how it makes me feel and keeps me motivated the while way through the workout personally. When I'm with someone else though I have no problem waiting for them to do their sets.
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340737 34 30
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