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Swiss ball DB presses13241

The Dark
Knight
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Anyone else do them? IMO, they're the #1 accessory exercise that got my bench as high as it went. Thoughts? Questions?

I hit the 100s for 12 reps today. Will upload a vid later. -3X
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AarronStenner private msg quote post Address this user
I used to do them when I didn't have access to a gym, I didn't think of them being a good accessory exercise. Thanks for sharing it though I'll be sure to include it in mine
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The Dark
Knight
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For me, anyway, it came down to, "you can't fire a cannon out of a canoe." If you get what that means, why they worked well as an accessory movement makes sense. -3X
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AarronStenner private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by eknight
For me, anyway, it came down to, "you can't fire a cannon out of a canoe." If you get what that means, why they worked well as an accessory movement makes sense. -3X


Does the fact your back has to arch on a Swiss ball help?
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Trev182 private msg quote post Address this user
Have to say ive never done them, don't have a swiss ball at my gym either, so cant say I will add them in!
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The Dark
Knight
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AarronStenner
Quote:
Originally Posted by eknight
For me, anyway, it came down to, "you can't fire a cannon out of a canoe." If you get what that means, why they worked well as an accessory movement makes sense. -3X


Does the fact your back has to arch on a Swiss ball help?


Ideally, only your shoulders are supported by the ball, with the rest of your trunk stabilized by your core and legs, so there's no arch involved (ie, we won't see Cannon doing many of these, lol). -3X
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Cannonball private msg quote post Address this user
Technically, since my ass would be in the air, it could be my new favorite exercise.
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The Dark
Knight
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@Cannonball lol. -3X
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Cannonball private msg quote post Address this user
Except that it seems pretty dangerous, especially in comparison to klokov presses lol
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The Dark
Knight
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^^ how so?

For clarification, this is what I'm talking about:



-3X
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Cannonball private msg quote post Address this user
Just in the sense that if I try it the ball is probably gonna pop and I'm gonna die
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The Dark
Knight
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LMAO. That won't happen for 2 reasons- first, I've gone up to the 110s and it didn't pop, and I doubt you'll start that high. If you've never tried them, you'll find that for most people, their shoulder stabilizers aren't strong enough to control the weight on the eccentric portion, with what you'd use for regular DB presses, so you'd need to start significantly lighter. Second, when I've used the 120's, I have deflated a ball, but they don't "pop." Swiss balls are designed to slowly deflate if they're compromised, not pop like a balloon. I had time to sit up and dump the weight before anything dangerous happened. -3X
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Cannonball private msg quote post Address this user
I think it's probably a great idea if your strength needs it, if you know what I mean. Some people are stable, but just too "soft" in the body when it comes to higher weights and may just have to focus more on explosive long pause soft touch training or slow bench, but my WR bench friend has done quite some pushup works in rings hanging from the ceiling where he has a person stand on his shoulders which I guess works kind of the same except it also hits the serratus.
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LongBeachPatriot private msg quote post Address this user
Supposedly swiss ball presses in general is not beneficial to hypertrophy. Lots of info on the internet about it.
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Ben777 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by LongBeachPatriot
Supposedly swiss ball presses in general is not beneficial to hypertrophy. Lots of info on the internet about it.


Please explain how pressing more than 100lbs for reps like EK showed will not help with growth
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The Dark
Knight
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben777
Quote:
Originally Posted by LongBeachPatriot
Supposedly swiss ball presses in general is not beneficial to hypertrophy. Lots of info on the internet about it.


Please explain how pressing more than 100lbs for reps like EK showed will not help with growth


This. Lol. ANY movement done correctly with progressive resistance is good for growth. -3X
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Trev182 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by LongBeachPatriot
Supposedly swiss ball presses in general is not beneficial to hypertrophy. Lots of info on the internet about it.


Not sure if trolling...
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Ben777 private msg quote post Address this user
@Trev182 I thought the same until I saw his "What will happen to my blood tests if I smoke weed before?" thread..
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ajones46 private msg quote post Address this user
@Eknight I was kind of in the same boat as cannon, fearing the ball would pop or just that a non stable base isn't the safest thing.

I just think you wanted to show everyone your pec tear has healed trolol.
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The Dark
Knight
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@ajones46 no comment lol. -3X
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mikew private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by eknight
IMO, they're the #1 accessory exercise that got my bench as high as it went.


Interesting; it was my understanding the benefits of training the so-called stabalizer muscles were overrated or nonexistent. E.g., guy doing barbell squats on a BOSU ball

http://thepursuitofstrength.blogspot.com/2011/09/myth-buster-stabilizer-muscles.html

Standing on an unstable surface while you attempt to lift a heavy object will do three things.

1: Limit the amount of weight that can be lifted: If you are lifting weights then I think it's safe to say that you intend on becoming stronger and in order to become stronger you need to stimulate your muscles with your lifts. By limiting the amount of weight that can be lifted you are making sure that you are not going to get any stronger, period.

2: Increasing Muscular Coordination: You will benefit some from this type of training by improving your balance; however, the benefit:risk ratio is not in your favor.

3: Increasing the Risk of Injury: Obviously, standing on a wobbly surface while attempting to lift a heavy weight is BLATANTLY STUPID. Especially to an untrained individual. So don't do it.


http://www.scienceofrunning.com/2010/06/searching-for-stability-efficacy-of.html

Re: Unstable surface training (UST)

These "additional" muscles that the authors refer to are antagonists, and this increased coactivation leads to ruined neuromuscular efficiency and improper movement patterns, the opposite of what the authors (Clark et al., 2004) claim. This increased antagonistic coactivation will increase stress on the joints. Additionally, it has been noted in the literature (Ivy & Portman, 2004) that intensity (% 1RM) determines how many calories are burned during an exercise, and if UST causes one to be weaker, it could be assumed that UST will not burn as many calories as the stable version of the same exercise at a higher intensity.

Thoughts?
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The Dark
Knight
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Absolutely if you're standing. As I noted earlier, though, think of trying to shoot a cannon. What's going to allow more distance and force- stable ground or shooting it out of a canoe? For me, using a Swiss ball allowed me to hit my shoulder stabilizers and leg and hip drive much more, and the carryover was amazing.

Edit to add- I'm familiar with a few studies that indicate greater anterior delt recruitment and ab recruitment from using a Swiss ball for benching, both of which are important for benching, and a few studies that show greater balance and joint stability are required to perform the movement. -3X
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MassTitan private msg quote post Address this user
So why the worlds best benchers are not using pussy ball?
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The Dark
Knight
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@MassTitan is this a serious question? I've trained with the best. Many of them DO use it. -3X
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Trev182 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by MassTitan
So why the worlds best benchers are not using pussy ball?


Just because it isn't talked about or seen on videos on youtube, does not mean it isn't used.
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oceanair private msg quote post Address this user
I used to do db presses on the ball when I first started working out. It was one of the exercises that a trainer showed me. Great for your core as well IMO. I also used to do db chest flies on the ball, another exercise he showed me, but wasn't a huge fan of those.
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Cannonball private msg quote post Address this user
I'd say its controversial enough to not be able to stand on either side. Even EK himself told me to stop doing feet up benching because the instability wouldnt be beneficial in increasing bottom power
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jonrivs49 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by eknight
^^ how so?

For clarification, this is what I'm talking about:



-3X
EK, Are you praying before you lift?.. just Joking.. Never tried it, afraid that ball might POP! Im not a baddass after all. afraid of a small swiss ball.haha..
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cassious private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by eknight
LMAO. That won't happen for 2 reasons- first, I've gone up to the 110s and it didn't pop, and I doubt you'll start that high. If you've never tried them, you'll find that for most people, their shoulder stabilizers aren't strong enough to control the weight on the eccentric portion, with what you'd use for regular DB presses, so you'd need to start significantly lighter. Second, when I've used the 120's, I have deflated a ball, but they don't "pop." Swiss balls are designed to slowly deflate if they're compromised, not pop like a balloon. I had time to sit up and dump the weight before anything dangerous happened. -3X


I have seen one pop while a guy was sitting on it. It was at my old gym and the ball must have been old as because everything in that gym is shit. It was the funniest shit to watch.
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mikew private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by eknight
Absolutely if you're standing. As I noted earlier, though, think of trying to shoot a cannon. What's going to allow more distance and force- stable ground or shooting it out of a canoe? For me, using a Swiss ball allowed me to hit my shoulder stabilizers and leg and hip drive much more, and the carryover was amazing.


I'm still puzzled by the cannonball/canoe analogy. Stable ground will allow more distance and force so why would you use a canoe??

And you're saying there is a benefit to bench press on an unstable surface but not a benefit to legs?

I don't see any benefit to lifting weights on an unstable surface no matter what exercise. The weight is limited, more change of injury, etc.

My sense is that you could get the same if not more benefits of those in the study you describe above by resting your shoulders on a flat stable surface (like the end of a bench) and pressing DBs as you would on a physio ball. Same form and mechanics at work but greater stability.
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