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Please assess my PHAT routine12180

Hamer93 private msg quote post Address this user
Sorry to make another thread but ive decided to sart PHAT, ive finally built a draft plan and would love some feed back from everyone. Would really appreciate the likes of @eknight @norlda @firmansi and well everyone really to give their honest opinion.

Ive decided to put the accsessory lifts from power upper into a seperate day as im used to trainin 6x a week.

Here it is

PHAT

Day 1 power lower
5x3-5 squats
3x3-5 deadlifts
3x5-8 leg press
3x10-12 leg curl
2x10-12 leg extension
4x10-15 seated and standing calf raise

Day 2 power higher
5x3-5 bench
3x4-6 incline
5x4-6 t bar row
5x pull ups
4x4-6 shoulder press
2x12-15 cable crosses
3x10-12 shrugs

Day 3 light accessories
3x8-12 of 3 bicep exercises
3x10-14 of 3 tricep exercises
5x10-12 latt raises
3x10-12 front raises
Abdominal work

Day 4 REST

Day 5 hyper lower
3x8-12 squats
3x10-12 lunges
3x10-12 leg press
3x10-12 leg extension
5x10-12 leg curl
Calfs

Day 6 hyper back and shoulders
4x8-12 t bar row
3x10-12 seated row
4x10-12 latt pull down
4x8-12 db shoulder press
4x10-12 front raise
4x10-12 latt raise
3x12-15 rear delt flies
3x10-13 shrugs

Day 7 hyper chest and arms
3x8-12 bench
3x10-12 incline bench
3x12-15 incline flies
3x10-12 cable crossover
4x8-12 ez bar curl
4x8-12 hammer curl
4x10-12 tricep pushdown
4x8-12 two rope pull down
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TyrannosaurusFlex private msg quote post Address this user
I would stick to the program if i was you. I see no point in moving the upper accessories to a selarate day, just enjoy a little extra free time
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Trev182 private msg quote post Address this user
Dont alter a plan that is reconised to give results.
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Hamer93 private msg quote post Address this user
I only put the extra day because i have to do an hour in the power gym at college and i also put it as really light just so i can hit the body parts that arnt worked alot
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WinnersNeverQuit private msg quote post Address this user
I'd stick to a dumbed original version, I personally think the updated one pf layne has too much

Pretty sure original was something like this on power days

upper:
Bench 3X3-5
Rows 3X3-5
Shoulder press 3X3-5
Chins 3X3-5

Lower:
Squat 3X3-5
Deadlift 3X3-5
Glute ham raises 4X4-6
Calves 4X 4-8

I far prefer the basics
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The Dark
Knight
eknight private msg quote post Address this user
Agree with the above about the 6 day set up. Would also revisit the number of pressing sets vs. rows on power day and add a bit more ham work on leg days. -3X
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Hamer93 private msg quote post Address this user
Ok so scrap day 3 and add 3 sets of tricep, 3 sets of bicep and 3 set latt raise to upper power?
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Hamer93 private msg quote post Address this user
So power upper would be:
5xbench
3xincline
5xrows
5xpull up/down
5xshoulder press

4xbarbell curl
4xtricep pull down
3xcable crosses
3xlatt raises
Post 8 IP   flag post
The Dark
Knight
eknight private msg quote post Address this user
I'd lose the cable crosses. Your routine as above has 11 sets for chest and only 5 rows. I would make that the inverse. You simply don't need that many sets for the anterior of the shoulder complex, and you need quite a bit more for the posterior. -3X
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Hamer93 private msg quote post Address this user
How about
4xbench 3-6 rep
4xincline. 3-6 rep
2xcables. 12-15

5xbarbell row. 3-6
5xpull down. 4-8
2xseated cable row. 10-15

5x shoulder press 4-8
3x latt raise 10-15

4xbicep 8-12
4xtricep 10-14


The only reason i want to keep the cable is i dont like soing just presses for chest
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The Dark
Knight
eknight private msg quote post Address this user
I think that's a colossal mistake. Cable crosses are not a power movement and have no business on a power day. They also don't work the chest any differently than presses.

But even if you kept them, you're still not balanced with the above. You have 10 sets for chest, and only 7 directly antagonistic to them for back. The current ratio of push to pull movements advised by PTs is 1 push:2 pull. You're still a ways off from that.

I have to ask- why not just run it as Layne advises for a while before you tinker with it? As it is set up, it looks like this:

Pulling Power Movement: Bent over or Pendlay rows
3 sets of 3-5 reps
Assistance Pulling movement: Weighted Pull ups
2 sets of 6-10 reps
Auxiliary Pulling movement: Rack chins
2 sets of 6-10 reps
Pressing Power Movement: Flat dumbbell presses
3 sets of 3-5 reps
Assistance pressing movement: Weighted dips
2 sets of 6-10 reps

That's 5 sets of pull and 3 sets of push in the horizontal plane. -3X
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Hamer93 private msg quote post Address this user
I thought on the site he had an accessory movement for chest thats why i made mine cable crosses. And sorry i thought you meant just sets for chest V sets for back, not the push pull ratio.

Yeah im currently watching the videos and reading through the peice on the main site.

Would it be ok to change some exercises? Such as dips hurt my left elbow where i broke it a few years ago
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The Dark
Knight
eknight private msg quote post Address this user
IMO changing is fine and one of the great things about PHAT. You just have to make sure you're substitutions are comparable. -3X
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Hamer93 private msg quote post Address this user
I see. So what about loose the cable and add another sort of pull/row? Would dumbell row or upright row be ok?

5xbench
3xincline
5xbarbell row
5xpull down
4xshoulder press
4xbicep
4xtricep
Then a row??
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The Dark
Knight
eknight private msg quote post Address this user
I would personally drop two sets of flat bench and add four sets of DB rows. Upright rows are not a comparable substitution. I'd also drop one set of biceps and triceps.

Still advising to run it as it is set up by Layne. -3X
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Hamer93 private msg quote post Address this user
Do you mean the one on the main Ss site yeah? Also what could i add in instead of rack pulls and dips? Incredily sorry to keep draggig this on, but i know your one of the most knowledgeable trainers in terms of PHAT i know
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The Dark
Knight
eknight private msg quote post Address this user
Rack pulls can be substituted with 3/4 deadlifts. Dips you can do decline bench. -3X
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NorIda private msg quote post Address this user
I agree with all the above. You're over thinking the simplicity of the PHAT concept.

Especially at the stage you're at in lifting, you should really focus on 2:1 pull/push ratio. It will keep you healthy and you'll likely see greater gains

Bench like a power lifter work your back like a bodybuilder.

Headin off to work but ill check back in.

I would stick to making minor substitutes to the original template
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FiremanSi private msg quote post Address this user
Yeah i agree with @eknight.. stick to the program man.. ur not experienced enough to start designing your own and it was structure as described for A REASON.
I've made the mistake of focusing on MIRROR musles like ur currently doing and wish i had guys like @NorIda & @eknight to bitch slap some sense into me...
2:1 pull to psuh ratio ALWAYS..
Just study a basic anatomy diagram and look how big the back is compared to the chest.... 2x 3x as big.. makes sense man.
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Hamer93 private msg quote post Address this user
cheers guys, this is why i love this place.

right so im going to do the routine as advised on the SS main site however just substitute dips for decline and im going to try rack chins as i been looking at ways to add weight without using a belt.

one other thing is my gym doesnt have lying leg curl so can i just do 6 sets seated hammy curl instead?

on the day at college when i have to do my own training im just going to do some mobility and flexibility work instead of weak body parts as i want to get some flexibility into my hip flexors and some other muscles.

thank you guys, you really have been a HUGE help, i cant stress that enough
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NorIda private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamer93
one other thing is my gym doesnt have lying leg curl so can i just do 6 sets seated hammy curl instead?


yea, that's a suitable substitute imo.
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The Dark
Knight
eknight private msg quote post Address this user
^^ agreed. -3X
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Hamer93 private msg quote post Address this user
also just to double check, rack chins is the variation of a pull up when the bar is sort of lower chest/upper abdominal height and you sort of lean back yes?
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FiremanSi private msg quote post Address this user
Seated is fine yeah man.. or even glute & ham raises if u have the machine.

If u can't do rack chins u can change these for another vertical pulling exercise... i do pulldowns myself.
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NorIda private msg quote post Address this user
Rack chins are basically a pull-up from the squat rack with your feet on the ground, yes.
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Hamer93 private msg quote post Address this user
no my gym doesnt have a glute&ham raise either :/

ok ive seen some videos of people doing the rack chins with their feet on a bench and resting a bar across mid section
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NorIda private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamer93
ok ive seen some videos of people doing the rack chins with their feet on a bench and resting a bar across mid section


Yea, Same thing!
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The Dark
Knight
eknight private msg quote post Address this user
@FiremanSi not the same in terms of biomechanics. One is antagonistic to an overhead press, the other to a bench press. -3X
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FiremanSi private msg quote post Address this user
@eknight i must have seen people doing it wrong so.. i saw some guys doing it bent at the hip upper body perpendicular to the ground and feet elevated... what ur saying sounds more like a loaded body row.... is that right ??
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The Dark
Knight
eknight private msg quote post Address this user
Sorry should have been more clear- I meant that a vertical pulling movement isn't the same (ie, lat pulls). -3X
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